public inbox for gdb@sourceware.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
Cc: gdb@sourceware.org
Subject: Re: Will therefore GDB utilize C++? Not.
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2012 23:32:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <201204062332.q36NW90m006330@new.toad.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120406131619.GI27438@adacore.com>

> And yet, that's exactly what we are doing:
>   - unit elaboration;
>   - gdbarch/language dispatching
>   - exception handling
>   - use of unions to emulate polymorphism;

Writing modular programs is a good idea even if we don't do it in C++.
I have heard it claimed that many techniques of modular programming
were even invented before C++ existed - though that may be doubted.

If people have the energy to rewrite large chunks of GDB, why argue
about it?  Go off and do it.  It's free software -- you don't even
have to start from scratch like GNU did.  The world can always use a
new debugger.  You can make a politically correct debugger (pcdb?)
with an identical interface but a C++ implementation under the hood.
If it's better than GDB in the long run, maintainers will migrate to
it, GDB will fall into disrepair, and GNU will adopt it.

It's always easier to see how a completely paper design is cleaner
than a piece of running code whose warts are in front of you.  And it
means you can respond to critics by saying, "See - you can't find any
problems in our nonexistent code, you are just making generalized
statements about the implementation language, which we should all
ignore as irrelevant."  By the time you actually get the new design
working, it too will have compromises, bugs, and won't match its
documentation.  Then again, if you had put that prodigious energy into
updating the original piece of running code, perhaps it would have
fewer bugs, fewer compromises, and updated documentation.

	John

PS: Which particular unions in gdb are you complaining about ("used to
emulate polymorphism")?  I grepped the sources, and see a bunch used
in BFD, in SIM, and in GDB's expression parser.  It seems to me that
they are all used to unify storage and access to disparate types of
elements in a list or array -- not to make or fake polymorphism.  This
is what unions were designed for.  Did I miss some corner where unions
are cowering under the lash of abuse?

PPS: What is "unit elaboration" and what does that have to do with
GDB?  All I can find from a quick web search is that it has something
to do with Ada.  Perhaps other languages don't do it -- or have 
another name for it.  "Linking"?  Are you sure we shouldn't rewrite
bits of GDB in Ada instead of C++?


  parent reply	other threads:[~2012-04-06 23:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 116+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-03-30 16:14 Will therefore GDB utilize C++ or not? Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-04 20:48 ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-04 21:55   ` Mark Kettenis
2012-04-05  3:31     ` Sergio Durigan Junior
2012-04-05 11:46     ` Phil Muldoon
2012-04-06  0:35       ` Will therefore GDB utilize C++? Not John Gilmore
2012-04-06  1:35         ` Russell Shaw
2012-04-06 13:16           ` Joel Brobecker
2012-04-06 14:43             ` Russell Shaw
2012-04-06 15:34             ` Michael Eager
2012-04-06 23:32             ` John Gilmore [this message]
2012-04-07  1:04               ` Robert Dewar
2012-04-07  1:52                 ` Thomas Dineen
2012-04-07 16:54               ` Michael Eager
2012-04-09 23:59               ` Stan Shebs
2012-04-05  0:22   ` Will therefore GDB utilize C++ or not? asmwarrior
2012-04-09 18:41   ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-09 19:05     ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-09 19:49       ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-09 20:15         ` Paul Smith
2012-04-12 20:06         ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2012-04-12 21:28           ` Paul_Koning
2012-04-13  0:04           ` Doug Evans
2012-04-18 14:10             ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-18 20:27             ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 14:08           ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-21 17:24             ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2012-04-16  6:55         ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-18 14:11           ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-18 15:16             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-18 15:28               ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-18 15:54                 ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-18 16:01                   ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-18 16:07                   ` Joel Brobecker
2012-04-18 16:13                     ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-18 16:23                       ` Joel Brobecker
2012-04-18 16:31                         ` Joel Sherrill
2012-04-18 16:50                           ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-18 16:57                             ` Joel Brobecker
2012-04-18 17:28                               ` Joel Sherrill
2012-04-18 17:40                               ` Paul_Koning
2012-04-18 20:37                                 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2012-04-18 20:38                                   ` Paul_Koning
2012-04-18 20:36                     ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 17:48                   ` John Gilmore
2012-04-18 19:07                     ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 23:10                       ` John Gilmore
2012-05-18 18:36                         ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-18 18:47                           ` Paul_Koning
2012-05-18 19:36                             ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-18 19:44                               ` Paul_Koning
2012-05-18 20:07                                 ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-18 20:41                                   ` Aurelian Melinte
2012-05-18 18:51                         ` Lazy CU expansion (Was: Will therefore GDB utilize C++ or not?) Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 20:34                   ` Will therefore GDB utilize C++ or not? Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 19:18               ` Will C++ proponents spend 20 minutes to try what they're proposing? John Gilmore
2012-04-18 19:23                 ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-18 20:40                 ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 20:56                   ` Mike Frysinger
2012-04-18 20:31           ` Will therefore GDB utilize C++ or not? Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 20:25         ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-21 18:11           ` Pedro Alves
2012-05-21 18:36             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-11-21 20:18             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-04-10  0:23     ` Yao Qi
2012-04-10  9:47       ` Yao Qi
2012-04-18 20:11     ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-18 20:31       ` Can it really be ok to map GPL'd code into any old process? John Gilmore
2012-04-18 20:36         ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-23 18:03       ` Will therefore GDB utilize C++ or not? Tom Tromey
2012-05-18 19:55     ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-18 21:56       ` Joel Brobecker
2012-05-19  2:17         ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-19 15:21           ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2012-05-19 21:36             ` Joel Brobecker
2012-05-20 12:16         ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2012-05-21 15:56       ` Pedro Alves
2012-05-21 16:15         ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-05-21 17:37           ` Paul_Koning
2012-05-21 17:58             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-05-22 18:03               ` Paul_Koning
2012-05-21 18:08           ` Pedro Alves
2012-05-21 18:08             ` Tom Tromey
2012-05-21 18:10             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-05-21 18:54             ` Matt Rice
2012-05-26 15:50         ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-06-02  7:01           ` Russell Shaw
2012-06-02  7:13             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-06-02 10:47               ` Russell Shaw
2012-06-02 11:10                 ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-06-02 11:15                   ` Russell Shaw
2012-06-02 11:15                   ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-11-22 18:46     ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-11-22 21:42       ` John Gilmore
2012-11-23 15:26         ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-11-27  1:29       ` Stan Shebs
2012-11-27  2:02         ` Paul_Koning
2012-11-27  2:59           ` Stan Shebs
2012-11-27 15:17             ` Paul_Koning
2012-11-27 21:14             ` Tom Tromey
2012-04-09 23:23   ` Stan Shebs
2012-04-18 14:22     ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-18 18:12       ` Stan Shebs
2012-04-18 18:32         ` Paul_Koning
2012-04-18 18:37         ` Pedro Alves
2012-04-19  8:43   ` Yao Qi
2012-12-04 14:17     ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-12-04 14:44       ` Mark Kettenis
2012-12-04 14:52         ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-12-06 20:39           ` Matt Rice
2012-12-07 12:57             ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-12-07 13:25             ` Yao Qi
2012-12-11  6:25               ` Matt Rice
2012-12-13 15:12                 ` Jan Kratochvil
2012-12-14 11:03                   ` Matt Rice
2012-12-14 12:16                     ` Jan Kratochvil

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=201204062332.q36NW90m006330@new.toad.com \
    --to=gnu@toad.com \
    --cc=brobecker@adacore.com \
    --cc=gdb@sourceware.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).