proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Per Bothner]

Currently the URL http://kawa-lang.org redirects to
https://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/ . I'm thinking maybe we should
do it the other way round, and have kawa-lang.org be the official Kawa URL.
The main reason is better branding, plus a shorter URl for people to remember/type.

The easiest and cheapest in the short term would be to host kawa-lang.org
on the same hosting site where I host bothner.com - which is DreamHost.
Of course that means it is still dependent on me, though it is possible
for me to create other maintainer accounts.  If there is some reason
to move it (for example Kawa gets a corporate sponsor) it should be
easy to move - it's just some static web pages.

If we do this, I'm thinking of doing it right after the move to git, and
have it be part of the kawa 2.3 changes.

That means the only service remaining at GNU/FSF would be the
download (ftp) site.  I see no major reason to move that,
though it would be easy to set up ftp.kawa-lang.org hosted using DreamHost.

The mailing list(s) can stay on sourceware.org for now.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Andrea Bernardini]

Hi Per,
Changing the kawa-lang.org seems sensible. Another easy way to host a
static site is the github Pages service. I used that when proposing
changes to the Kawa website
(https://andrebask.github.io/kawa-website/).

Cheers,
Andrea

On 13 November 2016 at 02:11, Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:
> Currently the URL http://kawa-lang.org redirects to
> https://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/ . I'm thinking maybe we should
> do it the other way round, and have kawa-lang.org be the official Kawa URL.
> The main reason is better branding, plus a shorter URl for people to
> remember/type.
>
> The easiest and cheapest in the short term would be to host kawa-lang.org
> on the same hosting site where I host bothner.com - which is DreamHost.
> Of course that means it is still dependent on me, though it is possible
> for me to create other maintainer accounts.  If there is some reason
> to move it (for example Kawa gets a corporate sponsor) it should be
> easy to move - it's just some static web pages.
>
> If we do this, I'm thinking of doing it right after the move to git, and
> have it be part of the kawa 2.3 changes.
>
> That means the only service remaining at GNU/FSF would be the
> download (ftp) site.  I see no major reason to move that,
> though it would be easy to set up ftp.kawa-lang.org hosted using DreamHost.
>
> The mailing list(s) can stay on sourceware.org for now.
> --
>         --Per Bothner
> per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Andrea Bernardini]

And having just read you other email, GitLab offers exactly the same
functionality https://pages.gitlab.io/

On 13 November 2016 at 11:53, Andrea Bernardini <andrebask@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Per,
> Changing the kawa-lang.org seems sensible. Another easy way to host a
> static site is the github Pages service. I used that when proposing
> changes to the Kawa website
> (https://andrebask.github.io/kawa-website/).
>
> Cheers,
> Andrea
>
> On 13 November 2016 at 02:11, Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:
>> Currently the URL http://kawa-lang.org redirects to
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/ . I'm thinking maybe we should
>> do it the other way round, and have kawa-lang.org be the official Kawa URL.
>> The main reason is better branding, plus a shorter URl for people to
>> remember/type.
>>
>> The easiest and cheapest in the short term would be to host kawa-lang.org
>> on the same hosting site where I host bothner.com - which is DreamHost.
>> Of course that means it is still dependent on me, though it is possible
>> for me to create other maintainer accounts.  If there is some reason
>> to move it (for example Kawa gets a corporate sponsor) it should be
>> easy to move - it's just some static web pages.
>>
>> If we do this, I'm thinking of doing it right after the move to git, and
>> have it be part of the kawa 2.3 changes.
>>
>> That means the only service remaining at GNU/FSF would be the
>> download (ftp) site.  I see no major reason to move that,
>> though it would be easy to set up ftp.kawa-lang.org hosted using DreamHost.
>>
>> The mailing list(s) can stay on sourceware.org for now.
>> --
>>         --Per Bothner
>> per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Per Bothner]

On 11/13/2016 04:03 AM, Andrea Bernardini wrote:
> And having just read you other email, GitLab offers exactly the same
> functionality https://pages.gitlab.io/

The key requirement is being able to use our own domain, i.e. kawa-lang.org.
The GitLab documentation suggests it might work, but I'd have to try it.
I'll do that after I have git functionality working.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[David Pirotte]

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> Currently the URL http://kawa-lang.org redirects to
> https://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/ . I'm thinking maybe we should
> do it the other way round, and have kawa-lang.org be the official Kawa URL.
> The main reason is better branding, plus a shorter URl for people to remember/type.

Why did you move it to DreamHost (curious here)?

IMO, s/w part of GNU and non gnu free s/w should be hosted on GNU servers
My 2c

David

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Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Per Bothner]

On 11/13/2016 09:54 AM, David Pirotte wrote:
>
>> Currently the URL http://kawa-lang.org redirects to
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/ . I'm thinking maybe we should
>> do it the other way round, and have kawa-lang.org be the official Kawa URL.
>> The main reason is better branding, plus a shorter URl for people to remember/type.
>
> Why did you move it to DreamHost (curious here)?

Nothing of Kawa has been moved to DreamHost - yet, except the domain
registration and management for kawa-lang.org.  For now kawa-lang.org
just redirects to gnu.

The underlying server for the static Kawa web pages is (to me) just
an implementation detail, as long as uptime is good, and the site doesn't get
blacklisted or malware-infested.  Dreamhost is convenient to me, since I already use
it for personal web pages, there would be no extra cost, and I could easily update
it with rdist.

What I'm concerned about is the user-visible URLs.  I really don't like
www.gnu.org/software/kawa - it's way too long.

Plain kawa.gnu.org would be a big improvement.  However, kawa-lang.org has
the benefit that it follows a familiar template: racket-lang.org,
scala-lang.org, ruby-lang.org.

> IMO, s/w part of GNU and non gnu free s/w should be hosted on GNU servers

I don't see the benefit to the Kawa project, myself, the Kawa community -
or even the greater Free Software community.

When it comes to git, Savannah's support is pretty bare-bones.  I don't
see any support for pull requests, the web viewer appears to be just that (a viewer),
and the issue tracker has zero integration.

If we're going to switch to git, I think most people would want something
a little more functional and integrated.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Per Bothner]

On 11/13/2016 03:53 AM, Andrea Bernardini wrote:
> I used GitHub]  when proposing changes to the Kawa website
> (https://andrebask.github.io/kawa-website/).

I took another look at that.  I note my new toolbar styling is much closer to yours!

It occurred to me that every page should have "The Kawa Scheme language"
as a heading.  However, rather than take up a lot of space on top,
why not add it to the top of the navigation column?

I.e. something like the following:

<div class="navcol">
<a href="index.html" title="Kawa Home"><table><tr><td>
   <div class="logo"><img src="style/kawa-logo.png"></div></td><td style="font-size: x-large; font-weight: bold"><span>The Kawa Scheme language</span></td>
   </tr></table></a>
<div class="navbar"><div class="toc"><ul>

... though of course cleaned up to use CSS styling.
(And fix some styling issues.)

What do you think?
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[Andrea Bernardini]

On 14 November 2016 at 00:46, Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:
> It occurred to me that every page should have "The Kawa Scheme language"
> as a heading.  However, rather than take up a lot of space on top,
> why not add it to the top of the navigation column?

I completely agree.

If you want to give a look at the changes I made most of them are in
[1] and [2]. One of the thing I changed in that old proposal was the
font. I used Open Sans for the text and Source Code Pro for the code
(the are both free and open fonts).

[1] https://github.com/andrebask/kawa-website/blob/gh-pages/kawa-layout.css
[2] https://github.com/andrebask/kawa-website/blob/gh-pages/doc/style/kawa.css

Re: proposal: move Kawa web-site to kawa-lang.org

[David Pirotte]

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Hello Per,

> ...
> What I'm concerned about is the user-visible URLs.  I really don't like
> www.gnu.org/software/kawa - it's way too long.

Ok, but for me, it's perfect, because, to me, a lot more important then 'just'
existing, is that it's part of gnu.  In my experience, nobody (almost ever) types a
url anyway, rather, we search and click. Searching for 'scheme' 'kawa' (using
duckduckgo.com) gives me, as the first entry,

	Kawa: The Kawa Scheme language - gnu.org
	It is an extension of the long-established Scheme language...

	gnu.org/software/kawa/index.htm

	[ for info, kawa-lang.org does not even appear in the first page (like 50
	[ entries or so)

> Plain kawa.gnu.org would be a big improvement.  However, kawa-lang.org has
> the benefit that it follows a familiar template: racket-lang.org,
> scala-lang.org, ruby-lang.org.

Ok, but really not important to me, the important thing is it is part of gnu

> When it comes to git, Savannah's support is pretty bare-bones.  I don't
> see any support for pull requests, the web viewer appears to be just that (a
> viewer), and the issue tracker has zero integration.

	that's exactly what I want, any precisely nothing more, hence cgit is the
	best of the best, imo

Fine, different opinion again I guess: (a) I really [but like really] totally
dislike 'pull request' work flow, and cgit is the best interface ever, all others
are marketing crap, and (b) afaic, the best tracker is https://debbugs.gnu.org/ 
a bug mailing list and mailman commands .. these 2, I can handle absolutely
everything without to have to use a browser, and the least possible GUI I have to
use the best... 

Finally, I will never ever (I'm not the only one) create an account on gitlab,
neither github of course, this is, to me, totally crazy, but the world is ...

Anyway, my 2c
David.

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