[Bug localedata/25119] New: Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[Bug localedata/25119] New: Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

            Bug ID: 25119
           Summary: Change Czech weekday names to lowercase
           Product: glibc
           Version: unspecified
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
          Assignee: unassigned at sourceware dot org
          Reporter: slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz
                CC: libc-locales at sourceware dot org
  Target Milestone: ---

Hello,

in the Czech locale data (cs_CZ), weekday names in 'abday' and 'day' are
currently capitalized. However, orthography rules demand them to be all
lowercase. General usage conforms to this rule. The capitalized version is
almost non-existent and the Czech Language Institute discourages its use.

As an example, consider the following text on formatting dates by the Czech
Language Institute (see the italicized text):
http://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?id=810

The relevant CLDR data is here, showing the lowercase names both in full and
abbreviated form:
https://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/36/summary/cs.html#2079

I can supply the patch if required.

Thanks for considering the issue.

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

--- Comment #1 from Jan Slaný <slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz> ---
I'm sorry, the linked article contains only examples of month days. The
following article explicitly states that lowercase should be used and provides
an example,
see the third line from the bottom ("pondělí, úterý").

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

--- Comment #2 from Jan Slaný <slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz> ---
Here is the article:
http://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?id=180

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |digitalfreak@lingonborough.
                   |                            |com

--- Comment #3 from Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com> ---
Thank you for the report. You don't have to write a patch but you can if you
want. CLDR confirms what you said and this is sufficient for us.

However, one final question. I have just checked and I can see that the
uppercased weekday names in Czech have been there from the beginning. My guess
is that this is to workaround the issue: the weekday names tend to appear in
the beginning of date formats where it is better to have them uppercased. So
the question is: are you sure you want this change? Have you consulted this
with anyone else?

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

--- Comment #4 from Jan Slaný <slanyjan89 at seznam dot cz> ---
I haven't consulted this with the maintainers. The last change mentioned in the
file header is from the year 2000 and I don't really know whom to contact. Is
there any maintainers list I can check?

You are right in guessing that the weekday mostly appears in the beginning of a
date format. I am aware that the capitalized version may be desired in some
cases, but these are limited to the beginnings of titles or sentences. The
current solution prevents us from writing proper sentences like "Today is
Friday, the first of November", which requires a lowercase version of the
weekday in Czech.

In short, I feel that the decision whether to capitalize or not should really
be left upon the author of the text.

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

--- Comment #5 from Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com> ---
(In reply to Jan Slaný from comment #4)
> I haven't consulted this with the maintainers. The last change mentioned in
> the file header is from the year 2000 and I don't really know whom to
> contact. Is there any maintainers list I can check?

I have just contacted (off-line) a Czech software translator and we are going
to discuss this issue more thoroughly.

> You are right in guessing that the weekday mostly appears in the beginning
> of a date format. I am aware that the capitalized version may be desired in
> some cases, but these are limited to the beginnings of titles or sentences.
> The current solution prevents us from writing proper sentences like "Today
> is Friday, the first of November", which requires a lowercase version of the
> weekday in Czech.

This is a case we discussed in another bug report.  Your example is a complete
sentence translation and my answer is: no, glibc' strftime function is not
supposed to support this complex cases.  Its purpose is to format dates.  If
you need a complete sentence you need an automatic translation software. :-)

> In short, I feel that the decision whether to capitalize or not should
> really be left upon the author of the text.

True, this is reported as bug 21370 but we don't yet have a solution.

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[pknbe at volny dot cz]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

Petr Kovar <pknbe at volny dot cz> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |pknbe at volny dot cz

--- Comment #6 from Petr Kovar <pknbe at volny dot cz> ---
I(In reply to Rafal Luzynski from comment #3)
> However, one final question. I have just checked and I can see that the
> uppercased weekday names in Czech have been there from the beginning. My
> guess is that this is to workaround the issue: the weekday names tend to
> appear in the beginning of date formats where it is better to have them
> uppercased. So the question is: are you sure you want this change? Have you
> consulted this with anyone else?

As a Czech translator asked by Rafal to comment on this, I agree the change
requested would sadly break the grammar for strings where the weekday name is
at the first position. We have no control over sentence context here, so a
proper fix indeed seems to be to introduce another flag.

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |maiku.fabian at gmail dot com

--- Comment #7 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
Similar issue for Italian:
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=28643

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[Bug localedata/25119] Change Czech weekday names to lowercase

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25119

--- Comment #8 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
I am not sure what should be done here.

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