[Bug localedata/25970] New: Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of

[Bug localedata/25970] New: Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of

[sh.yaron at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

            Bug ID: 25970
           Summary: Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of
           Product: glibc
           Version: unspecified
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: minor
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
          Assignee: unassigned at sourceware dot org
          Reporter: sh.yaron at gmail dot com
                CC: libc-locales at sourceware dot org
  Target Milestone: ---

The current Hebrew implementation is using apostrophe and quotation mark for
Hebrew days and years, for example:
The current day form is: יום א'
Should actually be: יום א׳

The current year form is: התש"ף or ה'תש"ף
While it should be: התש״ף or ה׳תש״ף

This change should create a more standardized Hebrew experience including some
cosmetic changes, the Hebrew Geresh is RTL aligned in Unicode so inside an LTR
context it will still appear at the end while apostrophe is agnostic and it
will appear before the text (this is how it should work because of the context
- my first example demonstrates this perfectly).

Furthermore, both Geresh and Gershayim (in most fonts at least) should be
stylized and their top should meet the top of the glyph height while the
non-standard characters are "popping" above the glyph height.

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[Bug localedata/25970] Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of native

[sh.yaron at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

sh.yaron at gmail dot com <sh.yaron at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Hebrew is using general     |Hebrew is using general
                   |punctuation instead of      |punctuation instead of
                   |                            |native

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[Bug localedata/25970] Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of native

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |fweimer at redhat dot com

--- Comment #1 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
The one problem I see is that neither U+05F3 nor U+05F4 are present in Latin-8.
They are available in Windows-1255. But maybe this is not a problem because
everyone uses UTF-8 nowadays?

What would be the appropriate ASCII transliteration for U+05F3 and U+05F4?

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[Bug localedata/25970] Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of native

[sourceware at hatul dot info]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

Amiad <sourceware at hatul dot info> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |sourceware at hatul dot info

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[Bug localedata/25970] Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of native

[sh.yaron at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #2 from sh.yaron at gmail dot com <sh.yaron at gmail dot com> ---
(In reply to Florian Weimer from comment #1)
> The one problem I see is that neither U+05F3 nor U+05F4 are present in
> Latin-8. They are available in Windows-1255. But maybe this is not a problem
> because everyone uses UTF-8 nowadays?
> 
> What would be the appropriate ASCII transliteration for U+05F3 and U+05F4?

If I understand you correctly then the current form is good enough in terms of
Latin8, but for Windows 1255 or Unicode these both have the standard symbols.

Is there an option for dual selection?

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[Bug localedata/25970] Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of native

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #3 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to sh.yaron@gmail.com from comment #2)
> (In reply to Florian Weimer from comment #1)
> > The one problem I see is that neither U+05F3 nor U+05F4 are present in
> > Latin-8. They are available in Windows-1255. But maybe this is not a problem
> > because everyone uses UTF-8 nowadays?
> > 
> > What would be the appropriate ASCII transliteration for U+05F3 and U+05F4?
> 
> If I understand you correctly then the current form is good enough in terms
> of Latin8, but for Windows 1255 or Unicode these both have the standard
> symbols.

Good to know, thanks.

> Is there an option for dual selection?

I think we can transliterate ׳ to ' and ״ to ". Then ISO-8859-8 should get the
current form, and Windows-1255 and UTF-8 the corrected one, after we make the
locale changes you proposed.

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[Bug localedata/25970] Hebrew is using general punctuation instead of native

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #4 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to sh.yaron@gmail.com from comment #0)
> The current year form is: התש"ף or ה'תש"ף
> While it should be: התש״ף or ה׳תש״ף

Sorry, one more question: Where do you see this year form? Can you get the
“date” command to print it?

I don't think it comes from glibc because we do not have any support for the
Hebrew calendar. (Our era support covers only calendars which are essentially
shifted from the Gregorian calendar.)

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[Bug localedata/25970] Use Geresh in he_IL locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Assignee|unassigned at sourceware dot org   |fweimer at redhat dot com
     Ever confirmed|0                           |1
             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |ASSIGNED
            Summary|Hebrew is using general     |Use Geresh in he_IL locale
                   |punctuation instead of      |
                   |native                      |
   Last reconfirmed|                            |2020-05-12

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[Bug localedata/25970] Use Geresh in he_IL locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #5 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
I think I have patches for this, except for the " vs ״ issue. I will post them
once we have clarity on the Gershayim part.

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[Bug localedata/25970] Use Geresh in he_IL locale

[sh.yaron at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #6 from sh.yaron at gmail dot com <sh.yaron at gmail dot com> ---
(In reply to Florian Weimer from comment #5)
> I think I have patches for this, except for the " vs ״ issue. I will post
> them once we have clarity on the Gershayim part.

This is awesome, I'm sorry about the Gershayim part, I misunderstood the
libhdate code.

You can skip that part, I'm trying to handle it in another path.

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[Bug localedata/25970] Use Geresh in he_IL locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #7 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
Patches posted:

https://sourceware.org/pipermail/libc-alpha/2020-May/113899.html
https://sourceware.org/pipermail/libc-alpha/2020-May/113900.html

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[Bug localedata/25970] Use Geresh in he_IL locale

[sh.yaron at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25970

--- Comment #8 from sh.yaron at gmail dot com <sh.yaron at gmail dot com> ---
Thank you so much!

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