[Bug localedata/30761] New: zh-Hans: new locale

[Bug localedata/30761] New: zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

            Bug ID: 30761
           Summary: zh-Hans: new locale
           Product: glibc
           Version: unspecified
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
          Assignee: unassigned at sourceware dot org
          Reporter: taozuhong at hotmail dot com
                CC: libc-locales at sourceware dot org
  Target Milestone: ---

Created attachment 15055
  --> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=15055&action=edit
zh-Hans locale data

Dear maintainers,

Please find attached the locale definition for zh-Hans to be considered for
inclusion in glibc.

Thanks!

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |taozuhong at hotmail dot com

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #1 from taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> ---
Chinese has two scripts/variants: Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese,
and the two variants are supported in different countries:
Simplified: zh-CN (Mainland), zh-SG (Singapore), zh-MY (Malaysia), zh-ID
(Indonesia)
Traditional: zh-TW (Taiwan), zh-HK (Hong Kong), zh-MO (Macau) 、....

Question
The locales in used can't cover all Chinese users, especial the users outside
the mainland of China, Hong Kong and Taiwan; the App developers will cost more
time to support them.

Chinese support solution
Since Windows Vista and later, RFC 4646 has been chosen as the locale tag, W3C
also support them, the language identification format is:
<Language>-<Script>-<Region>

The corresponding language codes are as follows:
Simplified: zh-Hans-CN / zh-Hans-SG / zh-Hans-MY / zh-Hans-ID / ...
Traditional: zh-Hant-CN / zh-Hant-HK / zh-Hant-TW / zh-Hant-MO / ...

if GLibc could support Chinese language encoding: zh-Hans/zh-Hant, Chinese
translation will cover all of Chinese users, and just maintain two po files.

To simplify and improve the Chinese support, please support the Chinese
language encoding zh-Hans/zh-Hant.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |fweimer at redhat dot com

--- Comment #2 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
We are not going to adapt RFC 4646 syntax. The present syntax is too widely
used for it to be changed. A locale contains more than just a language setting,
so naming locales after languages would be somewhat misleading anyway.

We can add country-agnostic Chinese language locales, but the proposed zh-Hans
locale still CNY as the currency symbol and other references to mainland China.
See the syr locale for a recently added locale that is expected to be
country-agnostic.

Under our present scheme, these new locales should probably called zh@Hans and
zh@Hant. We already have uses of the cmn language tag, maybe that's more
appropriate in context?

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[saihaze at outlook dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #3 from saihaze at outlook dot com ---
Is it OK not to include _CN? Can country code be dropped?

2023年8月15日 17:43:11 fweimer at redhat dot com via Libc-locales
<libc-locales@sourceware.org>:

> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761
> 
> Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:
> 
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |fweimer at redhat dot com
> 
> --- Comment #2 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
> We are not going to adapt RFC 4646 syntax. The present syntax is too widely
> used for it to be changed. A locale contains more than just a language setting,
> so naming locales after languages would be somewhat misleading anyway.
> 
> We can add country-agnostic Chinese language locales, but the proposed zh-Hans
> locale still CNY as the currency symbol and other references to mainland China.
> See the syr locale for a recently added locale that is expected to be
> country-agnostic.
> 
> Under our present scheme, these new locales should probably called zh@Hans and
> zh@Hant. We already have uses of the cmn language tag, maybe that's more
> appropriate in context?
> 
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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #4 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to saihaze from comment #3)
> Is it OK not to include _CN? Can country code be dropped?

Yes, absolutely, see eo and syr for existing examples. Maybe it will confuse
some software, but I think most applications have been fixed by now.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[saihaze at outlook dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #5 from saihaze at outlook dot com ---
RFC4646's not supporting this syntax really makes no sense. This syntax has
been used for years, and is accepted so widely.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #6 from taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> ---
(In reply to Florian Weimer from comment #2)
> We are not going to adapt RFC 4646 syntax. The present syntax is too widely
> used for it to be changed. A locale contains more than just a language
> setting, so naming locales after languages would be somewhat misleading
> anyway.
> 
> We can add country-agnostic Chinese language locales, but the proposed
> zh-Hans locale still CNY as the currency symbol and other references to
> mainland China. See the syr locale for a recently added locale that is
> expected to be country-agnostic.
> 
> Under our present scheme, these new locales should probably called zh@Hans
> and zh@Hant. We already have uses of the cmn language tag, maybe that's more
> appropriate in context?

Thanks for your feedback awfully.

https:www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5646
https:www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/

based on the specification RFC 5646 / Unicode TR35, these specs fully
considered the compatibility of the Glibc language present scheme, the language
tag format gave us a way to mixed them together, the specification thinks:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| zh_Hans | Chinese, in simplified script (=zh, zh-Hans, zh-CN, zh-Hans-CN) |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| zh_Hant | Chinese, in traditional script                                |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
and the language cmn should mapped to zh-Hant, cmn-TW mapped to zh-Hant-TW.

the most user of zh-Hans/zh-Hant are Chinese, for convenient the locale still
use CNY as the currency symbol.
and we can fork new locale like zh-Hans-MY/zh-Hans-ID if needed.

for GLibc long live, the language present scheme should follow specs, keep
origins for compatibility, new locales use new scheme for future.

so, I insist on using the locale name: zh-Hans / zh-Hant.

Thanks.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #7 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
*** Bug 30762 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #8 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
This part does not make sense to me, sorry:

“
the most user of zh-Hans/zh-Hant are Chinese, for convenient the locale still
use CNY as the currency symbol.
”

What's the difference to the existing zh_CN and zh_HK locales? Just the name?

As I already said, we are not going to adopt the RFC 5646 scheme. The glibc
convention is actually a POSIX convention and widely used. I do not know why
the IETF standardized a completely new scheme; I assume they never intended to
apply it to locale names.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #9 from taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> ---
> What's the difference to the existing zh_CN and zh_HK locales? Just the name?

Let's make it simple ASAP:
zh_CN(Simplified Chinese + China mainland)
zh_HK(Traditional Chinese + China Hong Kong)
zh_TW(Traditional Chinese + Chinese Taiwan)

zh_Hans = (zh_CN + zh_HK + Simplified Chinese + Others if want Simplified
Chinese)
zh_Hant = (zh_CN + zh_HK + Traditional Chinese + Others if want Traditional
Chinese)


So it we keep use zh_CN/zh_HK locale names scheme, then we must add the follow
locale names:
Simplified: zh-SG (Singapore), zh-MY (Malaysia), zh-ID (Indonesia), ......
Traditional: zh-TW (Taiwan), zh-HK (Hong Kong), zh-MO (Macau), ......

While you are facing the choices, which one will be choiced?
zh_Hans/zh_Hant VS zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/....

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[bluebat at member dot fsf.org]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

Wei-Lun Chao <bluebat at member dot fsf.org> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |bluebat at member dot fsf.org

--- Comment #10 from Wei-Lun Chao <bluebat at member dot fsf.org> ---
(In reply to taozuhong from comment #9)
> While you are facing the choices, which one will be choiced?
> zh_Hans/zh_Hant VS zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/....

zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/.... are better.
cmn_CN/wuu_CN/cmn_TW/nan_TW/hak_TW/lzh_TW/yue_TW/cmn_HK/yue_HK/... are the
best.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[saihaze at outlook dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #11 from saihaze at outlook dot com ---
By the way, who can view my wuu_CN@Hans and wuu_CN@Hant?

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #12 from taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> ---
(In reply to Wei-Lun Chao from comment #10)
> (In reply to taozuhong from comment #9)
> > While you are facing the choices, which one will be choiced?
> > zh_Hans/zh_Hant VS zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/....
> 
> zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/.... are better.
> cmn_CN/wuu_CN/cmn_TW/nan_TW/hak_TW/lzh_TW/yue_TW/cmn_HK/yue_HK/... are the
> best.

zh_Hans = (zh_CN + zh_HK + zh_TW + zh_MO + zh_SG + Simplified Chinese + Others
if want Simplified Chinese)
zh_Hant = (zh_CN + zh_HK + zh_TW + zh_MO + zh_SG + Traditional Chinese + Others
if want Traditional Chinese)

the current locale could map to zh_Hans/zh_Hant:
zh_CN = zh_Hans_CN
cmn_CN = zh_Hans_CN
wuu_CN = zh_Hans_CN
zh_HK = zh_Hant_HK
cmn_HK = zh_Hant_HK
yue_HK = zh_Hant_HK
zh_TW = zh_Hant_TW
cmn-TW = zh_Hant_TW
cmn_TW = zh_Hant_TW
nan_TW = zh_Hant_TW
hak_TW = zh_Hant_TW
lzh_TW = zh_Hant_TW
yue_TW = zh_Hant_TW

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[saihaze at outlook dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #13 from saihaze at outlook dot com ---
Locales also contain information about currency, country names and other
country-specific information. So it makes no sense to rename zh_CN to zh_Hans,
as other countries that use Chinese also have their own currency and country
names.

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #14 from taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> ---
> What's the difference to the existing zh_CN and zh_HK locales? Just the name?


Let's make it simple ASAP:
zh_CN = Simplified Chinese + China mainland
zh_HK = Traditional Chinese + China Hong Kong
zh_TW = Traditional Chinese + Chinese Taiwan
zh_MO = Traditional Chinese + China Macau

zh_Hans = (zh_CN + zh_HK + zh_TW + zh_MO + zh_SG + Simplified Chinese + Others
if want Simplified Chinese)
zh_Hant = (zh_CN + zh_HK + zh_TW + zh_MO + zh_SG + Traditional Chinese + Others
if want Traditional Chinese)

the current locale could map to zh_Hans/zh_Hant:
zh_CN = zh_Hans_CN
cmn_CN = zh_Hans_CN
wuu_CN = zh_Hans_CN
zh_HK = zh_Hant_HK
cmn_HK = zh_Hant_HK
yue_HK = zh_Hant_HK
zh_TW = zh_Hant_TW
cmn-TW = zh_Hant_TW
cmn_TW = zh_Hant_TW
nan_TW = zh_Hant_TW
hak_TW = zh_Hant_TW
lzh_TW = zh_Hant_TW
yue_TW = zh_Hant_TW

So it we keep use zh_CN/zh_HK locale names scheme, then we must add the follow
locale names:
Simplified Chinese
  cmn: zh_CN(China mainland), zh-SG (Singapore), zh-MY (Malaysia), zh-ID
(Indonesia), ......
  wuu: wuu_CN(China mainland)
  yue: maybe exist
  nan: maybe exist
  hak: maybe exist
  lzh: maybe exist

Traditional Chinese
  cmn: zh_TW (Chinese Taiwan), zh_HK (China Hong Kong), zh_MO (China Macau),
......
  yue: yue_HK(China Hong Kong)
  nan: nan_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
  hak: hak_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
  lzh: lzh_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
  yue: yue_TW(Chinese Taiwan)

While you are facing the choices, which one will be choiced?
zh_Hans/zh_Hant VS
zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/yue_HK/nan_TW/hzk_TW/wuu_CN/....

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[Bug localedata/30761] zh-Hans: new locale

[taozuhong at hotmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30761

--- Comment #15 from taozuhong <taozuhong at hotmail dot com> ---
(In reply to taozuhong from comment #14)
> > What's the difference to the existing zh_CN and zh_HK locales? Just the name?
> 
> 
> Let's make it simple ASAP:
> zh_CN = Simplified Chinese + China mainland
> zh_HK = Traditional Chinese + China Hong Kong
> zh_TW = Traditional Chinese + Chinese Taiwan
> zh_MO = Traditional Chinese + China Macau
> 
> zh_Hans = (zh_CN + zh_HK + zh_TW + zh_MO + zh_SG + Simplified Chinese +
> Others if want Simplified Chinese)
> zh_Hant = (zh_CN + zh_HK + zh_TW + zh_MO + zh_SG + Traditional Chinese +
> Others if want Traditional Chinese)
> 
> the current locale could map to zh_Hans/zh_Hant:
> zh_CN = zh_Hans_CN
> cmn_CN = zh_Hans_CN
> wuu_CN = zh_Hans_CN
> zh_HK = zh_Hant_HK
> cmn_HK = zh_Hant_HK
> yue_HK = zh_Hant_HK
> zh_TW = zh_Hant_TW
> cmn-TW = zh_Hant_TW
> cmn_TW = zh_Hant_TW
> nan_TW = zh_Hant_TW
> hak_TW = zh_Hant_TW
> lzh_TW = zh_Hant_TW
> yue_TW = zh_Hant_TW
> 
> So if we keep use zh_CN/zh_HK locale names scheme, then we must add the
> follow locale names:
> Simplified Chinese
>   cmn: zh_CN(China mainland), zh-SG (Singapore), zh-MY (Malaysia), zh-ID
> (Indonesia), ......
>   wuu: wuu_CN(China mainland)
>   yue: maybe exist
>   nan: maybe exist
>   hak: maybe exist
>   lzh: maybe exist
>   
> Traditional Chinese
>   cmn: zh_TW (Chinese Taiwan), zh_HK (China Hong Kong), zh_MO (China Macau),
> ......
>   yue: yue_HK(China Hong Kong)
>   nan: nan_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
>   hak: hak_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
>   lzh: lzh_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
>   yue: yue_TW(Chinese Taiwan)
> 
> While you are facing the choices, which one will be chosen?
> zh_Hans/zh_Hant VS
> zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_TW/zh_SG/zh_MY/zh_ID/zh_MO/yue_HK/nan_TW/hzk_TW/wuu_CN/....

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/intl/locale-names
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/LanguageandLocaleIDs/LanguageandLocaleIDs.html
[language designator]_[region designator]
[language designator]-[script designator]
[language designator]-[script designator]_[region designator]

the LOCALE_SNAME value of Windows and macOS follows the pattern
<language>-<Script>-<REGION>, where Script is an initial-uppercase ISO 15924
script code.

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