From: Andrey Gursky <andrey.gursky@e-mail.ua>
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Cc: Corinna Vinschen <corinna-cygwin@cygwin.com>
Subject: Re: WinXP is dead [WAS: 2.6.x: broken compatibility with Wine],
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:20:00 -0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161110151959.e652f67c30629dfe77836b0a@e-mail.ua> (raw)
> On Nov 10 04:21, Andrey Gursky wrote:
> > Hi cyg Simple,
> >
> > On 11/9/2016 7:59 AM, Andrey Gursky wrote:
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Was it not too early to remove WinXP support? Though it is
> > > > officially not supported anymore, there are still PCs running WinXP
> > > > (and Wine). Also there are still systems, I've heard, using some
> > > > embedded Windows, that shares the same code with WinXP, thus making it
> > > > not yet truly obsolete. Additionally a lot of work has been done by
> > > > Cygwin contributors to support this OS and I believe the most of bugs
> > > > have been workarounded, while due to stopped development it is not
> > > > likely one has to spend time solving new problems. So was it really
> > > > worth to drop the hardly crafted code? Are there already some
> > > > worthwhile advantages? Why wasn't it possible to switch Cygwin WinXP
> > > > support to just "not officially supported"? (kindly asking)
> > >
> > > This has been answered. The problem with supporting XP into infinitude
> > > is that every application would need to agree to do the same.
> > > Improvements to the OS API would not be able to be used so there are
> > > trade-offs for the continued support of an OS that is no longer
> > > supported. The code becomes unwieldy to maintain because a change needs
> > > to be tested on other systems. Security maintenance becomes impossible
> > > because the OS vendor no longer supports the older OS. There is the
> > > cygwin time machine, USE IT if you need old software for old OS.
> >
> > Thanks for your reply (however I haven't received it, because you
> > likely didn't click on "reply all"?).
> >
> > Do you refer to the recent message [1]?
> >
> > Regarding cygwin time machine. I can't use it, since cygwin is compiled
> > for MSYS2. And then it is being run under Wine on GNU/Linux. While
> > WinXP is still not dead, Wine is definitively not an old OS. It's just
> > an active project doing WinAPI implementation from scratch according to
> > documentation. Thus I hope Cygwin developers could talk directly to
> > Wine ones to find the minimum needed changes in both projects.
>
> Ending XP support was announced last year and only a year later we
> actually dropped it. So we don't support Windows XP anymore, but we
> *would* support Wine. However, the problem here is not on the Cygwin
> side.
>
> It seems Cygwin under Wine was not tested outside of XP compatibility
> mode, or Wine doesn't support certain post-XP functions albeit claiming
> Vista caompatibility. Cygwin doesn't require any functionality which
> isn't available in Vista.
Corinna,
sorry, I missed that early announce. Is there any link? Since I'm aware
only of almost "last minute" MSYS2 mail [1] referring to your recent
announce.
If I understood you correctly, previously discussed changes in Cygwin
itself are not considered anymore and from now Wine is really left
alone with this issue?
Regards,
Andrey
[1] Announcement: msys2-runtime 2.5.1 -- last version to support XP/2003
30. June 2016
https://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/mailman/message/35191999/
P.S. I didn't receive your message also. Does Cygwin mailing list
program strips my E-Mail address (though I see it in the archive)?
(And it even can't guess a possibly follow-up :( )
--
Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID
From: Andrey Gursky <andrey.gursky@e-mail.ua>
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Cc: Corinna Vinschen <corinna-cygwin@cygwin.com>
Subject: Re: WinXP is dead [WAS: 2.6.x: broken compatibility with Wine],
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:38:00 -0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161110151959.e652f67c30629dfe77836b0a@e-mail.ua> (raw)
Message-ID: <20161110143800.N4XfHnvyh3AhEcQmKVVvRX87A3LIhL8bZ8X4anhjZ6w@z> (raw)
> On Nov 10 04:21, Andrey Gursky wrote:
> > Hi cyg Simple,
> >
> > On 11/9/2016 7:59 AM, Andrey Gursky wrote:
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Was it not too early to remove WinXP support? Though it is
> > > > officially not supported anymore, there are still PCs running WinXP
> > > > (and Wine). Also there are still systems, I've heard, using some
> > > > embedded Windows, that shares the same code with WinXP, thus making it
> > > > not yet truly obsolete. Additionally a lot of work has been done by
> > > > Cygwin contributors to support this OS and I believe the most of bugs
> > > > have been workarounded, while due to stopped development it is not
> > > > likely one has to spend time solving new problems. So was it really
> > > > worth to drop the hardly crafted code? Are there already some
> > > > worthwhile advantages? Why wasn't it possible to switch Cygwin WinXP
> > > > support to just "not officially supported"? (kindly asking)
> > >
> > > This has been answered. The problem with supporting XP into infinitude
> > > is that every application would need to agree to do the same.
> > > Improvements to the OS API would not be able to be used so there are
> > > trade-offs for the continued support of an OS that is no longer
> > > supported. The code becomes unwieldy to maintain because a change needs
> > > to be tested on other systems. Security maintenance becomes impossible
> > > because the OS vendor no longer supports the older OS. There is the
> > > cygwin time machine, USE IT if you need old software for old OS.
> >
> > Thanks for your reply (however I haven't received it, because you
> > likely didn't click on "reply all"?).
> >
> > Do you refer to the recent message [1]?
> >
> > Regarding cygwin time machine. I can't use it, since cygwin is compiled
> > for MSYS2. And then it is being run under Wine on GNU/Linux. While
> > WinXP is still not dead, Wine is definitively not an old OS. It's just
> > an active project doing WinAPI implementation from scratch according to
> > documentation. Thus I hope Cygwin developers could talk directly to
> > Wine ones to find the minimum needed changes in both projects.
>
> Ending XP support was announced last year and only a year later we
> actually dropped it. So we don't support Windows XP anymore, but we
> *would* support Wine. However, the problem here is not on the Cygwin
> side.
>
> It seems Cygwin under Wine was not tested outside of XP compatibility
> mode, or Wine doesn't support certain post-XP functions albeit claiming
> Vista caompatibility. Cygwin doesn't require any functionality which
> isn't available in Vista.
Corinna,
sorry, I missed that early announce. Is there any link? Since I'm aware
only of almost "last minute" MSYS2 mail [1] referring to your recent
announce.
If I understood you correctly, previously discussed changes in Cygwin
itself are not considered anymore and from now Wine is really left
alone with this issue?
Regards,
Andrey
[1] Announcement: msys2-runtime 2.5.1 -- last version to support XP/2003
30. June 2016
https://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/mailman/message/35191999/
P.S. I didn't receive your message also. Does Cygwin mailing list
program strips my E-Mail address (though I see it in the archive)?
(And it even can't guess a possibly follow-up :( )
--
Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
next reply other threads:[~2016-11-10 14:20 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-11-10 14:20 Andrey Gursky [this message]
2016-11-10 14:38 ` Andrey Gursky
2016-11-10 15:06 ` Corinna Vinschen
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-11-10 16:14 WinXP is dead [WAS: 2.6.x: broken compatibility with Wine] Andrey Gursky
2016-11-10 19:21 ` Andrey Gursky
2016-11-10 3:22 Andrey Gursky
2016-11-10 9:04 ` Corinna Vinschen
2016-11-11 0:15 ` Herbert Stocker
2016-11-11 1:04 ` Peter A. Castro
2016-11-11 11:33 ` Herbert Stocker
2016-11-12 3:29 ` cyg Simple
2016-11-12 4:34 ` Peter A. Castro
2016-11-09 13:00 2.6.x: broken compatibility with Wine Andrey Gursky
2016-11-09 18:23 ` WinXP is dead [WAS: 2.6.x: broken compatibility with Wine] cyg Simple
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20161110151959.e652f67c30629dfe77836b0a@e-mail.ua \
--to=andrey.gursky@e-mail.ua \
--cc=corinna-cygwin@cygwin.com \
--cc=cygwin@cygwin.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).