can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Steven Schwarz]

Hi,

I've been tasked with confirming the claim made by a PersonalJava VM
vendor that their implementation passes the Mauve suite.

(If you're not familiar with PersonalJava, you can just think of it
as, basically JDK 1.1.8, with some of the fine-grained security model
APIs from JDK 1.2 thrown in, and some of the expectations of the AWT
implementation relaxed.)

I've had a quick try at using Mauve to test various JDKs:

        JDK 1.1.8 (from blackdown)
        JDK 1.2.2 (from Sun)
        JDK 1.3.1 (from Sun)
        JDK 1.4.2 (from Sun)

Of these, I only had success with JDK 1.4.2.  All of the others failed
to compile the SimpleTestHarness, as well as some of the classes
involved in various individual tests.

I was using

                        make KEYS=JDK1.1 check

in hopes of limiting the scope of Mauve to tests appropriate for the
1.1 level of JDK.  Doing that I was surprised to see compile time
errors from any of the tests, but really surprised to see that the
basic harness was using features from JDK 1.4.

Questions:

 * Is anyone else out there using Mauve for testing such old JDKs as
   1.1.8 (or even PersonalJava)?  If so, could you share your strategy
   and experiences?

 * With respect to this vendor's claim, it appears to be made in
   marketing literature dated 2001.  Is it possible to go back to the
   sources that would have been current in 2001 in the current CVS
   repository?

Thanks,
sts

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Thomas Zander]

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On Friday 29 April 2005 00:52, Steven Schwarz wrote:
> I've been tasked with confirming the claim made by a PersonalJava VM
> vendor that their implementation passes the Mauve suite.

The trick is that you _run_ it agains the target JVM.  What you compile it 
with is irrelevant.

I suggest you type 
   JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/j2sdk1.5.0 ant jars
or similar to produce the jar.
After that you can just run the test suite using the compiled classes.

ps. I noticed that the mauve suite again does not compile against an 1.5 
compiler. (enum problems and stuff like that) I'll try to fix them again 
later today. :}

-- 
Thomas Zander

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Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Steven Schwarz]

Thanks for the suggestion to make jars -- that will definitely help
make things more convenient, if I can get around something else.
Here's the something else:

If I compile with a JDK 1.4.2 or 1.5.0 I end up with class files with
major.minor version 46.0.  If I attempt to run them with a
PersonalJava or JDK 1.1.8 VM, I run up against the limitation that
those VMs are only empowered to accept classes whose versions are in
the range 45.0 .. 45.65535, i.e. strictly before version 46.0.  JDKs
1.2.2 and 1.3.1 will produce class files with versions before 46.0,
but unfortunately, cannot compile Mauve, as I explained in my previous
posting.

So I guess my question about whether I can use Mauve in the
environment I need to is made equivalent to whether I can find a
compiler that will compile Mauve producing classes with version
strictly before 46.0.  Any suggestions for such a compiler?  I've only
ever used Sun (or blackdown) JDKs.  Will Jikes help?

Thanks,
sts

On 29-Apr-2005 Thomas Zander wrote:
>  On Friday 29 April 2005 00:52, Steven Schwarz wrote:
> > I've been tasked with confirming the claim made by a PersonalJava VM
> > vendor that their implementation passes the Mauve suite.
>  
>  The trick is that you _run_ it agains the target JVM.  What you compile it 
>  with is irrelevant.
>  
>  I suggest you type 
>     JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/j2sdk1.5.0 ant jars
>  or similar to produce the jar.
>  After that you can just run the test suite using the compiled classes.
>  
>  ps. I noticed that the mauve suite again does not compile against an 1.5 
>  compiler. (enum problems and stuff like that) I'll try to fix them again 
>  later today. :}
>  
>  -- 
>  Thomas Zander

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Dalibor Topic]

Steven Schwarz wrote:

> So I guess my question about whether I can use Mauve in the
> environment I need to is made equivalent to whether I can find a
> compiler that will compile Mauve producing classes with version
> strictly before 46.0.  Any suggestions for such a compiler?  I've only
> ever used Sun (or blackdown) JDKs.  Will Jikes help?
> 

Hallo stefan.

you can usually pass the compiler a flag to tell it to generate class 
files for an older VM. -source or -target depending on the compiler.

cheers,
dalibor topic

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Archie Cobbs]

Steven Schwarz wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion to make jars -- that will definitely help
> make things more convenient, if I can get around something else.
> Here's the something else:
> 
> If I compile with a JDK 1.4.2 or 1.5.0 I end up with class files with
> major.minor version 46.0.  If I attempt to run them with a
> PersonalJava or JDK 1.1.8 VM, I run up against the limitation that
> those VMs are only empowered to accept classes whose versions are in
> the range 45.0 .. 45.65535, i.e. strictly before version 46.0.  JDKs
> 1.2.2 and 1.3.1 will produce class files with versions before 46.0,
> but unfortunately, cannot compile Mauve, as I explained in my previous
> posting.
> 
> So I guess my question about whether I can use Mauve in the
> environment I need to is made equivalent to whether I can find a
> compiler that will compile Mauve producing classes with version
> strictly before 46.0.  Any suggestions for such a compiler?  I've only
> ever used Sun (or blackdown) JDKs.  Will Jikes help?

Just compile with "-target 1.4" (or whatever).

-Archie

__________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs      *        CTO, Awarix        *      http://www.awarix.com

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Steven Schwarz]

On 29-Apr-2005 Archie Cobbs wrote:
> Steven Schwarz wrote:
>> Thanks for the suggestion to make jars -- that will definitely help
>> make things more convenient, if I can get around something else.
>> Here's the something else:
>> 
>> If I compile with a JDK 1.4.2 or 1.5.0 I end up with class files with
>> major.minor version 46.0.  If I attempt to run them with a
>> PersonalJava or JDK 1.1.8 VM, I run up against the limitation that
>> those VMs are only empowered to accept classes whose versions are in
>> the range 45.0 .. 45.65535, i.e. strictly before version 46.0.  JDKs
>> 1.2.2 and 1.3.1 will produce class files with versions before 46.0,
>> but unfortunately, cannot compile Mauve, as I explained in my previous
>> posting.
>> 
>> So I guess my question about whether I can use Mauve in the
>> environment I need to is made equivalent to whether I can find a
>> compiler that will compile Mauve producing classes with version
>> strictly before 46.0.  Any suggestions for such a compiler?  I've only
>> ever used Sun (or blackdown) JDKs.  Will Jikes help?
> 
> Just compile with "-target 1.4" (or whatever).
> 
> -Archie
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> Archie Cobbs      *        CTO, Awarix        *      http://www.awarix.com

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Thomas Zander]

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On Friday 29 April 2005 17:16, Steven Schwarz wrote:
> If I compile with a JDK 1.4.2 or 1.5.0 I end up with class files with
> major.minor version 46.0.  If I attempt to run them with a
> PersonalJava or JDK 1.1.8 VM, I run up against the limitation that
> those VMs are only empowered to accept classes whose versions are in
> the range 45.0 .. 45.65535, i.e. strictly before version 46.0.  JDKs
> 1.2.2 and 1.3.1 will produce class files with versions before 46.0,
> but unfortunately, cannot compile Mauve, as I explained in my previous
> posting.


Good point.
Please do an cvs update on the build.xml in mauve and try again:
JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/j2sdk1.5.0 ant jars

Oh; don't forget an ant clean first, naturally.
-- 
Thomas Zander

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Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Steven Schwarz]

Ok.  I used -target 1.1 and that worked to produce class files that
are acceptable to a JDK 1.1.8 VM.  Now the problem is that
SimpleTestHarness won't run on a JDK 1.1.8 VM:

        java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: java/lang/Comparable

If I go to the labor of crafting a replacement for SimpleTestHarness
that confines itself to 1.1 APIs, will I also find that there are
individual tests for which the subject of the test is a 1.1 API (and
therefore the test earns the JDK1.1 tag) but the way the test is
written drags in 1.2 - 1.5 APIs for the test verification?

I come back to my original question: are people out there really using
the current Mauve with PersonalJava (or JDK 1.1) implementations?

Thanks,
sts

On 29-Apr-2005 Archie Cobbs wrote:
> Steven Schwarz wrote:
>> Thanks for the suggestion to make jars -- that will definitely help
>> make things more convenient, if I can get around something else.
>> Here's the something else:
>> 
>> If I compile with a JDK 1.4.2 or 1.5.0 I end up with class files with
>> major.minor version 46.0.  If I attempt to run them with a
>> PersonalJava or JDK 1.1.8 VM, I run up against the limitation that
>> those VMs are only empowered to accept classes whose versions are in
>> the range 45.0 .. 45.65535, i.e. strictly before version 46.0.  JDKs
>> 1.2.2 and 1.3.1 will produce class files with versions before 46.0,
>> but unfortunately, cannot compile Mauve, as I explained in my previous
>> posting.
>> 
>> So I guess my question about whether I can use Mauve in the
>> environment I need to is made equivalent to whether I can find a
>> compiler that will compile Mauve producing classes with version
>> strictly before 46.0.  Any suggestions for such a compiler?  I've only
>> ever used Sun (or blackdown) JDKs.  Will Jikes help?
> 
> Just compile with "-target 1.4" (or whatever).
> 
> -Archie
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> Archie Cobbs      *        CTO, Awarix        *      http://www.awarix.com

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Tom Tromey]

>>>>> "Steven" == Steven Schwarz <schwarz@solekai.com> writes:

Steven> Of these, I only had success with JDK 1.4.2.  All of the others failed
Steven> to compile the SimpleTestHarness, as well as some of the classes
Steven> involved in various individual tests.

The intent was always that this would work properly -- that you could
compile the 1.x subset of Mauve with a 1.x compiler and runtime, and
then try it.

However, this has obviously bit-rotted, probably because nobody really
uses anything < 1.4 any more.

Patches to fix this are welcome ... :-)
But of course we can't promise it won't break again unless this is
done with some regularity.

Steven>  * With respect to this vendor's claim, it appears to be made in
Steven>    marketing literature dated 2001.  Is it possible to go back to the
Steven>    sources that would have been current in 2001 in the current CVS
Steven>    repository?

Sure, see the '-D' option to cvs.

Tom

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Steven Schwarz]

Thanks for the reply.

I have already produced a version of the SimpleTestHarness that will
run on a 1.1.8 VM.  Then there are 39 1.1-tagged test classes that I
have identified as needing repair actually to run on a 1.1.8 VM.  I
have so far made repairs for 2 and have in mind doing a good number of
the 39.  But there may be some test classes that I will simply not
choose to utilize, those that make use of the AWT Robot class being
definite candidates for that list.  It might just be better to change
their tagging in my opinion.

When I am done, if there is interest in having this work committed,
I'll certainly be happy to make it available.

With regard to my question about history, I know about the -D option,
but my question was whether the current repository has revisions that
go back that far (4 years is an eternity in many development projects,
and many have to make compromises that "lose history" for various
reasons over such a long span).

Thanks again,
sts

On 30-Apr-2005 Tom Tromey wrote:
>>>>>> "Steven" == Steven Schwarz <schwarz@solekai.com> writes:
> 
> Steven> Of these, I only had success with JDK 1.4.2.  All of the others failed
> Steven> to compile the SimpleTestHarness, as well as some of the classes
> Steven> involved in various individual tests.
> 
> The intent was always that this would work properly -- that you could
> compile the 1.x subset of Mauve with a 1.x compiler and runtime, and
> then try it.
> 
> However, this has obviously bit-rotted, probably because nobody really
> uses anything < 1.4 any more.
> 
> Patches to fix this are welcome ... :-)
> But of course we can't promise it won't break again unless this is
> done with some regularity.
> 
> Steven>  * With respect to this vendor's claim, it appears to be made in
> Steven>    marketing literature dated 2001.  Is it possible to go back to the
> Steven>    sources that would have been current in 2001 in the current CVS
> Steven>    repository?
> 
> Sure, see the '-D' option to cvs.
> 
> Tom

Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Thomas Zander]

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On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 09:44:48AM -0700, Steven Schwarz wrote:
> When I am done, if there is interest in having this work committed,
> I'll certainly be happy to make it available.

Yes please!  I doubt any problems will be had from getting tests that
should run on 1.1 and up to actually run on 1.1 :)
Just post it to this list and I, or someone else will pick it up.

> With regard to my question about history, I know about the -D option,
> but my question was whether the current repository has revisions that
> go back that far (4 years is an eternity in many development projects,
> and many have to make compromises that "lose history" for various
> reasons over such a long span).

See this link for more info they you wanted; I don't think mauve ever removed
revisions from its cvs.
http://object-refinery.com/classpath/mauve/statcvs/

Please do note that the open source mauve tests did not start in 1995 (when Java
first came out) because of various reasons.   But your request was about the
mauve version in 2001, and that should be easey to checkout.

-- 
Thomas Zander

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Re: can Mauve help me test a PersonalJava implementation?

[Tom Tromey]

Steven> Ok.  I used -target 1.1 and that worked to produce class files that
Steven> are acceptable to a JDK 1.1.8 VM.  Now the problem is that
Steven> SimpleTestHarness won't run on a JDK 1.1.8 VM:
Steven>         java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: java/lang/Comparable

Yeah, -target N is not that useful if you are using classes that
didn't appear in that release.  (This is something we could teach the
free systems to warn about :-)

Steven> If I go to the labor of crafting a replacement for SimpleTestHarness
Steven> that confines itself to 1.1 APIs, will I also find that there are
Steven> individual tests for which the subject of the test is a 1.1 API (and
Steven> therefore the test earns the JDK1.1 tag) but the way the test is
Steven> written drags in 1.2 - 1.5 APIs for the test verification?

Probably.  Those are bugs, though.

Steven> I come back to my original question: are people out there really using
Steven> the current Mauve with PersonalJava (or JDK 1.1) implementations?

Not that I know of.

Tom