[PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[Jon Turney]

Use AM_SILENT_RULES, to enable automake silent rules (by default), if we
are using a version of automake which supports it (>=1.11).

Silent rules can be disabled by configuring with '--disable-silent-rules',
or invoking 'make V=1'.

For ease of reviewing, this patch doesn't contain configure and
Makefile.in regeneration.

Future work: There are a few compilations which are not silenced by
this, as they use custom rules.
---
 newlib/acinclude.m4 | 1 +
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)

diff --git a/newlib/acinclude.m4 b/newlib/acinclude.m4
index 05e545c9f..42af6b548 100644
--- a/newlib/acinclude.m4
+++ b/newlib/acinclude.m4
@@ -121,6 +121,7 @@ AC_SUBST(newlib_basedir)
 AC_CANONICAL_HOST
 
 AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([cygnus no-define 1.9.5])
+m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES], [AM_SILENT_RULES(yes)])
 
 # FIXME: We temporarily define our own version of AC_PROG_CC.  This is
 # copied from autoconf 2.12, but does not call AC_PROG_CC_WORKS.  We
-- 
2.34.1

Re: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Dec  7 12:56, Jon Turney wrote:
> Use AM_SILENT_RULES, to enable automake silent rules (by default), if we
> are using a version of automake which supports it (>=1.11).
> 
> Silent rules can be disabled by configuring with '--disable-silent-rules',
> or invoking 'make V=1'.
> 
> For ease of reviewing, this patch doesn't contain configure and
> Makefile.in regeneration.
> 
> Future work: There are a few compilations which are not silenced by
> this, as they use custom rules.
> ---
>  newlib/acinclude.m4 | 1 +
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> 
> diff --git a/newlib/acinclude.m4 b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> index 05e545c9f..42af6b548 100644
> --- a/newlib/acinclude.m4
> +++ b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> @@ -121,6 +121,7 @@ AC_SUBST(newlib_basedir)
>  AC_CANONICAL_HOST
>  
>  AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([cygnus no-define 1.9.5])
> +m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES], [AM_SILENT_RULES(yes)])
>  
>  # FIXME: We temporarily define our own version of AC_PROG_CC.  This is
>  # copied from autoconf 2.12, but does not call AC_PROG_CC_WORKS.  We
> -- 
> 2.34.1

Nice, please push.


Thanks,
Corinna

Re: Fw: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[C Howland]

>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Newlib <newlib-bounces+craig.howland=caci.com@sourceware.org> on
> behalf of Corinna Vinschen <vinschen@redhat.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 7, 2021 9:16 AM
> *To:* newlib@sourceware.org <newlib@sourceware.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules
>
>
> On Dec  7 12:56, Jon Turney wrote:
> > Use AM_SILENT_RULES, to enable automake silent rules (by default), if we
> > are using a version of automake which supports it (>=1.11).
> >
> > Silent rules can be disabled by configuring with
> '--disable-silent-rules',
> > or invoking 'make V=1'.
> >
> > For ease of reviewing, this patch doesn't contain configure and
> > Makefile.in regeneration.
> >
> > Future work: There are a few compilations which are not silenced by
> > this, as they use custom rules.
> > ---
> >  newlib/acinclude.m4 | 1 +
> >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> >
> > diff --git a/newlib/acinclude.m4 b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> > index 05e545c9f..42af6b548 100644
> > --- a/newlib/acinclude.m4
> > +++ b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> > @@ -121,6 +121,7 @@ AC_SUBST(newlib_basedir)
> >  AC_CANONICAL_HOST
> >
> >  AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([cygnus no-define 1.9.5])
> > +m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES], [AM_SILENT_RULES(yes)])
> >
> >  # FIXME: We temporarily define our own version of AC_PROG_CC.  This is
> >  # copied from autoconf 2.12, but does not call AC_PROG_CC_WORKS.  We
> > --
> > 2.34.1
>
> Nice, please push.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Corinna
>
>      Umm, not so fast?  Some questions.
     Should this really be made the new default?  OK, Corinna is on board
with that.  I personally don't want it as a default because I want to see
command line arguments.  Easy for me to get different, but only knowing
how.  That leads to the next question.
     Given that silent were made default, it is a big change in terms of
what people see.  How would you know to change it?  (New feature, most
people are far from experts in automake.)  Therefore, the directions most
definitely would need something added that explains it.  (Without knowing
about it, I can see it taking someone a long time to chase down why they
suddenly lost the make output.)  Something along the lines of Jon's
explanation in the patch email needs to end up in README and probably also
printed by a configure help.
                      Craig

Re: Fw: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[Mike Frysinger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1498 bytes --]

On 07 Dec 2021 11:10, C Howland wrote:
>      Should this really be made the new default?

yes

>  I personally don't want it as a default because I want to see
> command line arguments.  Easy for me to get different, but only knowing
> how.  That leads to the next question.

then use the standard `make V=1` or `./configure --disable-silent-rules`

>      Given that silent were made default, it is a big change in terms of
> what people see.  How would you know to change it?  (New feature, most
> people are far from experts in automake.)  Therefore, the directions most
> definitely would need something added that explains it.  (Without knowing
> about it, I can see it taking someone a long time to chase down why they
> suddenly lost the make output.)  Something along the lines of Jon's
> explanation in the patch email needs to end up in README and probably also
> printed by a configure help.

you can make this argument about any change.  we shouldn't be paralyzed by
historical behavior and never make progress.  the automake manual provides
background info about why chatty make is not a good thing.
https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#Silencing-Make

the option is standard in the GNU ecosystem and adoption rate is only going
up.  it's already in the --help of configure.  no one has to know or be an
expert in automake to find it.

adding the option to the newlib/README sounds reasonable since it already
has a bunch of these.  want to send a patch ?
-mike

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Re: Fw: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[C Howland]

On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 at 14:51, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 07 Dec 2021 11:10, C Howland wrote:
> >      Should this really be made the new default?
>
> yes
>
> >  I personally don't want it as a default because I want to see
> > command line arguments.  Easy for me to get different, but only knowing
> > how.  That leads to the next question.
>
> then use the standard `make V=1` or `./configure --disable-silent-rules`
>
> >      Given that silent were made default, it is a big change in terms of
> > what people see.  How would you know to change it?  (New feature, most
> > people are far from experts in automake.)  Therefore, the directions most
> > definitely would need something added that explains it.  (Without knowing
> > about it, I can see it taking someone a long time to chase down why they
> > suddenly lost the make output.)  Something along the lines of Jon's
> > explanation in the patch email needs to end up in README and probably
> also
> > printed by a configure help.
>
> you can make this argument about any change.  we shouldn't be paralyzed by
> historical behavior and never make progress.  the automake manual provides
> background info about why chatty make is not a good thing.
>
I did not at all say that we should not do it.  I just pointed out there
are reasons some people might not want it as the new default, while
acknowledging that others might (e.g you and Corinna) and that it is a very
visible one that needs additional consideration.

> https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#Silencing-Make
>
> the option is standard in the GNU ecosystem and adoption rate is only going
> up.  it's already in the --help of configure.  no one has to know or be an
> expert in automake to find it.
>
> OK, good.  But this underscores the need to know something for a change
for such a large impact.  (Why would one look under configure when make
output has a very large change?)

> adding the option to the newlib/README sounds reasonable since it already
> has a bunch of these.  want to send a patch ?
> -mike
>

The whole point of my response is that a README entry should be part of the
patch to begin with--you should be supplying it. (I didn't know about the
help in configure, what else would I miss?)
Craig

[PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[Jon Turney]

Use AM_SILENT_RULES, to enable automake silent rules (by default), if we
are using a version of automake which supports it (>=1.11).

Silent rules can be disabled by configuring with '--disable-silent-rules',
or invoking 'make V=1'.

For ease of reviewing, this patch doesn't contain configure and
Makefile.in regeneration.

Future work: There are a few compilations which are not silenced by
this, as they use custom rules.
---
 newlib/README       | 3 +++
 newlib/acinclude.m4 | 1 +
 2 files changed, 4 insertions(+)

diff --git a/newlib/README b/newlib/README
index c82bf8b8c..1c0541284 100644
--- a/newlib/README
+++ b/newlib/README
@@ -127,6 +127,9 @@ directories, you can run `make' on them in parallel (for example, if
 they are NFS-mounted on each of the hosts); they will not interfere
 with each other.
 
+   By default, the execution of build rules in `make' is less verbose.
+To disable, run `make V=1'; or use the `--disable-silent-rules’ option
+of `./configure'.
 
 Specifying names for hosts and targets
 ======================================
diff --git a/newlib/acinclude.m4 b/newlib/acinclude.m4
index 05e545c9f..42af6b548 100644
--- a/newlib/acinclude.m4
+++ b/newlib/acinclude.m4
@@ -121,6 +121,7 @@ AC_SUBST(newlib_basedir)
 AC_CANONICAL_HOST
 
 AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([cygnus no-define 1.9.5])
+m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES], [AM_SILENT_RULES(yes)])
 
 # FIXME: We temporarily define our own version of AC_PROG_CC.  This is
 # copied from autoconf 2.12, but does not call AC_PROG_CC_WORKS.  We
-- 
2.34.1

Re: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[Brian Inglis]

On 2021-12-07 13:03, C Howland wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 at 14:51, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On 07 Dec 2021 11:10, C Howland wrote:
>>> Should this really be made the new default?

>> yes

>>> I personally don't want it as a default because I want to see 
>>> command line arguments. Easy for me to get different, but only
>>> knowing how. That leads to the next question.

>> then use the standard `make V=1` or `./configure --disable-silent-rules`

Does "$ export V=1" provide the OP's preferred behaviour?

>>> Given that silent were made default, it is a big change in terms
>>> of what people see.  How would you know to change it? (New
>>> feature, most people are far from experts in automake.)
>>> Therefore, the directions most definitely would need something
>>> added that explains it. (Without knowing about it, I can see it
>>> taking someone a long time to chase down why they suddenly lost
>>> the make output.) Something along the lines of Jon's explanation
>>> in the patch email needs to end up in README and probably also 
>>> printed by a configure help.

>> you can make this argument about any change.  we shouldn't be paralyzed by
>> historical behavior and never make progress.  the automake manual provides
>> background info about why chatty make is not a good thing.

> I did not at all say that we should not do it.  I just pointed out there
> are reasons some people might not want it as the new default, while
> acknowledging that others might (e.g you and Corinna) and that it is a very
> visible one that needs additional consideration.

>> https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#Silencing-Make
>> the option is standard in the GNU ecosystem and adoption rate is only going
>> up.  it's already in the --help of configure.  no one has to know or be an
>> expert in automake to find it.

> OK, good. But this underscores the need to know something for a change
> for such a large impact.  (Why would one look under configure when make
> output has a very large change?)

>> adding the option to the newlib/README sounds reasonable since it already
>> has a bunch of these. want to send a patch ?

> The whole point of my response is that a README entry should be part of the
> patch to begin with--you should be supplying it. (I didn't know about the
> help in configure, what else would I miss?)

Try "$ less +/^Optional .../configure" to see Optional Features 
--enable-/--disable- and Optional Packages --with-/--without- where 
available and supported.

As with the best configure, build, and test suites, most maintainers 
would ideally like to see an options summary, build and test command 
summaries e.g CC c.c/CCLD/GEN/PASS/FAIL c to show progress, with the 
full commands and paths on any failures, and a results summary.

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains
too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised.
[Data in binary units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]

Re: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Dec  7 20:12, Jon Turney wrote:
> Use AM_SILENT_RULES, to enable automake silent rules (by default), if we
> are using a version of automake which supports it (>=1.11).
> 
> Silent rules can be disabled by configuring with '--disable-silent-rules',
> or invoking 'make V=1'.
> 
> For ease of reviewing, this patch doesn't contain configure and
> Makefile.in regeneration.
> 
> Future work: There are a few compilations which are not silenced by
> this, as they use custom rules.
> ---
>  newlib/README       | 3 +++
>  newlib/acinclude.m4 | 1 +
>  2 files changed, 4 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/newlib/README b/newlib/README
> index c82bf8b8c..1c0541284 100644
> --- a/newlib/README
> +++ b/newlib/README
> @@ -127,6 +127,9 @@ directories, you can run `make' on them in parallel (for example, if
>  they are NFS-mounted on each of the hosts); they will not interfere
>  with each other.
>  
> +   By default, the execution of build rules in `make' is less verbose.
> +To disable, run `make V=1'; or use the `--disable-silent-rules’ option
> +of `./configure'.
>  
>  Specifying names for hosts and targets
>  ======================================
> diff --git a/newlib/acinclude.m4 b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> index 05e545c9f..42af6b548 100644
> --- a/newlib/acinclude.m4
> +++ b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> @@ -121,6 +121,7 @@ AC_SUBST(newlib_basedir)
>  AC_CANONICAL_HOST
>  
>  AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([cygnus no-define 1.9.5])
> +m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES], [AM_SILENT_RULES(yes)])
>  
>  # FIXME: We temporarily define our own version of AC_PROG_CC.  This is
>  # copied from autoconf 2.12, but does not call AC_PROG_CC_WORKS.  We
> -- 
> 2.34.1

Still nice :)


Corinna

Re: Fw: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules

[C Howland]

>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Newlib <newlib-bounces+craig.howland=caci.com@sourceware.org> on
> behalf of Corinna Vinschen <vinschen@redhat.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 8, 2021 4:49 AM
> *To:* newlib@sourceware.org <newlib@sourceware.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [PATCH] Enable automake silent rules
>
>
>
> On Dec  7 20:12, Jon Turney wrote:
> > Use AM_SILENT_RULES, to enable automake silent rules (by default), if we
> > are using a version of automake which supports it (>=1.11).
> >
> > Silent rules can be disabled by configuring with
> '--disable-silent-rules',
> > or invoking 'make V=1'.
> >
> > For ease of reviewing, this patch doesn't contain configure and
> > Makefile.in regeneration.
> >
> > Future work: There are a few compilations which are not silenced by
> > this, as they use custom rules.
> > ---
> >  newlib/README       | 3 +++
> >  newlib/acinclude.m4 | 1 +
> >  2 files changed, 4 insertions(+)
> >
> > diff --git a/newlib/README b/newlib/README
> > index c82bf8b8c..1c0541284 100644
> > --- a/newlib/README
> > +++ b/newlib/README
> > @@ -127,6 +127,9 @@ directories, you can run `make' on them in parallel
> (for example, if
> >  they are NFS-mounted on each of the hosts); they will not interfere
> >  with each other.
> >
> > +   By default, the execution of build rules in `make' is less verbose.
> > +To disable, run `make V=1'; or use the `--disable-silent-rules’ option
> > +of `./configure'.
> >
> >  Specifying names for hosts and targets
> >  ======================================
> > diff --git a/newlib/acinclude.m4 b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> > index 05e545c9f..42af6b548 100644
> > --- a/newlib/acinclude.m4
> > +++ b/newlib/acinclude.m4
> > @@ -121,6 +121,7 @@ AC_SUBST(newlib_basedir)
> >  AC_CANONICAL_HOST
> >
> >  AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([cygnus no-define 1.9.5])
> > +m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES], [AM_SILENT_RULES(yes)])
> >
> >  # FIXME: We temporarily define our own version of AC_PROG_CC.  This is
> >  # copied from autoconf 2.12, but does not call AC_PROG_CC_WORKS.  We
> > --
> > 2.34.1
>
> Still nice :)
>
>
> Corinna
>
>
The addition looks nice, thank you.
Craig