possibility of emulation

possibility of emulation

[Eugeny Korekin]

Hello,

I want to recreate good old game Encyclopedia of War
(http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Encyclopedia+of+War%3A+Ancient+Battles),
as that is by my opinion one of the best historical war games,
and there is no open-source analogs.

May be including some ideas from "Great Battles" series
would also improve gameplay.

I wonder if that possible to do with Xconq or that would
be easier to write it from scratch, so I have few questions:

1) EoW uses square tiles, while Xconq uses hexes.
Is that possible to create xconq game with square tile?

2) EoW uses morale concept heavily.
There is exception from manual:

------------------------
7.9 Morale                                                                                                                                                    
After combat the computer checks the morale of every unit. This may cause                                                                                     
some units to retreat or break and rout. Players are shown those units that                                                                                   
break or retreat. Two pieces of information are given about them. Firstly, the                                                                                
losses suffered that turn and secondly, their morale level. The higher this                                                                                   
second figure is, the more unhappy a unit is. This allows players to gauge                                                                                    
how close a retreating unit is to breaking. Units break when their morale                                                                                     
level is greater than or equal to twice their own morale plus two.                                                                                            
The factors taken into account in the morale test are as follows:-                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                                              
-       Casualties suffered that turn.                                                                                                                        
-       Whether unit is winning or losing hand to hand combat.                                                                                                
-       How many consecutive times the unit has lost in combat.                                                                                               
-       Whether fighting elephants or chariots.                                                                                                               
-       Whether infantry losing in combat to cavalry.                                                                                                         
-       Fatigue level of unit.                                                                                                                                
-       Whether enemy units are behind units rear or flank.                                                                                                   
-       Whether unit is with a general.                                                                                                                       
-       Whether a general can be seen in rout.                                                                                                                
-       Other friendly units that can be seen routing or being destroyed. Units                                                                               
        are more disturbed by seeing units of higher morale factor rout, than                                                                                 
        those of lower morale.                                                                                                                                
-       Enemy units that can be seen in rout.
-------------------------

Can that be emulated with xconq engine?
If not, how hard that would be to change xconq engine,
so that emulation would be possible?

More questions to come...

Thanks for the answers!

WBW, Eugeny <az at ftc ru>

Re: possibility of emulation

[Eric McDonald]

Hi Eugeny,

Eugeny Korekin wrote:

> 1) EoW uses square tiles, while Xconq uses hexes.
> Is that possible to create xconq game with square tile?

Distance and direction calculations in Xconq are heavily dependent on 
the hex grid. To add support for a square grid would be a major effort, 
I think.

> 2) EoW uses morale concept heavily.

[ snipped ]

> Can that be emulated with xconq engine?
> If not, how hard that would be to change xconq engine,
> so that emulation would be possible?

Xconq has some support for the concept of morale. More morale-related 
support could be added if necessary.

> More questions to come...

We will try to answer them.

   Regards,
      Eric

Re: possibility of emulation

[Jim Kingdon]

> Distance and direction calculations in Xconq are heavily dependent on 
> the hex grid. To add support for a square grid would be a major effort, 
> I think.

Well, a significant effort (more than just fixing dir.h and the
drawing code), but not necessarily more of an effort than writing a
game engine from scratch ;-).

Re: possibility of emulation

[Eric McDonald]

Hi Jim,

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Jim Kingdon wrote:

> > Distance and direction calculations in Xconq are heavily dependent on 
> > the hex grid. To add support for a square grid would be a major effort, 
> > I think.
> 
> Well, a significant effort (more than just fixing dir.h and the
> drawing code), but not necessarily more of an effort than writing a
> game engine from scratch ;-).

Oh sure, I agree that it is doable, and it would be nice to be 
able to abstract Xconq from the hex grid at some point. Having the 
ability to use a grid of squares or other polygonal tiling would 
open up the game engine for many more games to be 
implemented/emulated. Personally, I don't feel up to it right now.

Even wilder__, it would be interesting to see if one could set up 
geometry calculations to make local plane approximations of 
multi-dimensional saddle curves or spheroidal pieces. (There 
probably couldn't be any decent, comprehensible 
representation beyond a certain zoom factor, so there would 
be no world map.) Xconq on a Klein Bottle map, anyone?

Eric 

Re: possibility of emulation

[Hans Ronne]

>Hi Jim,
>
>On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Jim Kingdon wrote:
>
>> > Distance and direction calculations in Xconq are heavily dependent on
>> > the hex grid. To add support for a square grid would be a major effort,
>> > I think.
>>
>> Well, a significant effort (more than just fixing dir.h and the
>> drawing code), but not necessarily more of an effort than writing a
>> game engine from scratch ;-).
>
>Oh sure, I agree that it is doable, and it would be nice to be
>able to abstract Xconq from the hex grid at some point. Having the
>ability to use a grid of squares or other polygonal tiling would
>open up the game engine for many more games to be
>implemented/emulated. Personally, I don't feel up to it right now.

Neither do I. My feeling is that hex grids are superior to square grids in
almost every way. So if a game with a square grid is ported to xconq and
gets a hex grid in the process, that is an improvement. Consider Civ2 as an
example.

Hans

Re: possibility of emulation

[Jim Kingdon]

> Xconq on a Klein Bottle map, anyone?

Oh, that's different from hex vs non-hex (and probably easier).

We all know flat maps (edges on left, right, top and bottom) - the
xconq default.

xconq has the start of a cylindrical map (edges on top and bottom, but
if you go off the left edge you appear on the right with the same y
coordinate).

There are plenty of computer games with a doughnut-shaped map (like
cylindrical, but wrap around top/bottom as well). (Mathematicians call
this one a torus).

Now, let's try the Moebius strip.  Make it like the cylindrical map,
but when you go off the left edge you appear on the right with a y
coordinate of "size - origY".  So imagine following the top edge to
the right (east).  As you go off the right, you get to the bottom left
corner, and if you keep going east, you follow the bottom edge, and
then appear at the top left.  Note that you are following the edge,
and without moving to the other edge, there is only one edge.

Ready for the Klein bottle?  Join both edges (as we did with the
doughnut).  But twist one of the joins as we did for the Moebius
strip.  Actually, it is probably easier to implement in xconq than it
is to visualize.

There are some nice pictures at
http://www.jcu.edu/math/vignettes/Mobius.htm
Looking at the pictures of rectangles with arrows on them should show
how it would look on the xconq screen.

What all this does for gameplay, I don't know.  Might have a big
effect, given how easy it is to sneak past the AI at the edge of the
map.  But maybe the AI would just have another weak spot - I'm not
sure whether this weakness of the AI is a matter of geometry or just
of the AI not protecting its flanks/rear in general.

> local plane approximations of multi-dimensional saddle curves or
> spheroidal pieces. (There probably couldn't be any decent,
> comprehensible representation beyond a certain zoom factor, so there
> would be no world map.)

That would be interesting too (in mathematical terms, it is a question
of changing the geometry, not just the topology).

Re: possibility of emulation

[Eric McDonald]

Jim Kingdon wrote:
>>Xconq on a Klein Bottle map, anyone?
> 
> Oh, that's different from hex vs non-hex (and probably easier).

Yes, I know. That's why I mentioned it in a different paragraph. 
However, the best type of tiling might change with the topology that one 
is dealing with.

> xconq has the start of a cylindrical map (edges on top and bottom, but
> if you go off the left edge you appear on the right with the same y
> coordinate).

Right. All that you need to do is set the width of the playing area 
larger than the circumference.

> There are plenty of computer games with a doughnut-shaped map (like
> cylindrical, but wrap around top/bottom as well). (Mathematicians call
> this one a torus).

Tori simply require two aligned folds of opposite edges. By aligned, I 
mean that each pair of corners that are to be joined share a common edge 
prior to being joined.

> But twist one of the joins as we did for the Moebius
> strip.  

An anti-aligned fold.

>Actually, it is probably easier to implement in xconq than it
> is to visualize.

I would agree.

> What all this does for gameplay, I don't know.  Might have a big
> effect, given how easy it is to sneak past the AI at the edge of the
> map.  But maybe the AI would just have another weak spot - I'm not
> sure whether this weakness of the AI is a matter of geometry or just
> of the AI not protecting its flanks/rear in general.

If the AI was properly done, it could have an advantage in the Klein 
Bottle case, just because the poor humans might get disoriented.

>>local plane approximations of multi-dimensional saddle curves or
>>spheroidal pieces. (There probably couldn't be any decent,
>>comprehensible representation beyond a certain zoom factor, so there
>>would be no world map.)
> 
> That would be interesting too (in mathematical terms, it is a question
> of changing the geometry, not just the topology).

I would consider it to be pretty much of a necessity in presenting the 
playing surface to the player.

Eric