setting up sim project web space

setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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i'd like to start a sim landing page for the sim project at
https://sourceware.org/sim/

i'm not sure how to actually do this, but i assume someone here knows
the answer :).
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

Hi -

> i'd like to start a sim landing page for the sim project at
> https://sourceware.org/sim/

May I ask why?  Is there talk of separating it from gdb or something?

- FChE

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 10 Sep 2021 08:06, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> > i'd like to start a sim landing page for the sim project at
> > https://sourceware.org/sim/
> 
> May I ask why?  Is there talk of separating it from gdb or something?

the sim code has always been buildable & usable independent of gdb.  there
are no requirements in the sim code on gdb.  it can be built & released
independent too.  there are no plans currently to do independent releases,
but there is need for hosting of sim-specific documentation (e.g. manual).
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

Hi -

> the sim code has always been buildable & usable independent of gdb.  there
> are no requirements in the sim code on gdb.  it can be built & released
> independent too.  there are no plans currently to do independent releases,
> but there is need for hosting of sim-specific documentation (e.g. manual).

How about just using the gdb docs/wiki until that hypothetical time
when it is released independently?  It'd simplify configuration, and
avoid having to deal with yet another set of admin ACLs & repos.

- FChE

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 17 Nov 2021 19:56, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> > the sim code has always been buildable & usable independent of gdb.  there
> > are no requirements in the sim code on gdb.  it can be built & released
> > independent too.  there are no plans currently to do independent releases,
> > but there is need for hosting of sim-specific documentation (e.g. manual).
> 
> How about just using the gdb docs/wiki until that hypothetical time
> when it is released independently?  It'd simplify configuration, and
> avoid having to deal with yet another set of admin ACLs & repos.

i am using the wiki, but that's not good (if even possible) for hosting manuals
or providing a homepage to anchor info.

the gdb folks have been moving to disconnect the sim from itself more.

the sim project has always had a separate list of maintainers.

i don't see why we need to create a separate tarball just to get access to
web hosting.  although the logic is, and always has been, in the tree to
easily create a dedicated sim release.
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Mike,

On Wed, 2021-11-17 at 20:38 -0500, Mike Frysinger via Overseers wrote:
> > How about just using the gdb docs/wiki until that hypothetical time
> > when it is released independently?  It'd simplify configuration, and
> > avoid having to deal with yet another set of admin ACLs & repos.
> 
> i am using the wiki, but that's not good (if even possible) for hosting manuals
> or providing a homepage to anchor info.

The wiki probably isn't a good place, but you can simply create a
subpage under sourceware.org/gdb/sim through cvs as described under
webpages: https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/current/

It isn't that we don't want to create a new groups cvs/git repo for you
to maintain sim documentation, but it is extra work and if it can
simply be done as part of the gdb project resources that saves some
time for everybody.

And maybe if it is a pain for you to maintain the sim webpages as part
of gdb, then maybe it is a pain for all of gdb and maybe we should
focus on improving that for everybody.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 18 Nov 2021 16:03, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-11-17 at 20:38 -0500, Mike Frysinger via Overseers wrote:
> > > How about just using the gdb docs/wiki until that hypothetical time
> > > when it is released independently?  It'd simplify configuration, and
> > > avoid having to deal with yet another set of admin ACLs & repos.
> > 
> > i am using the wiki, but that's not good (if even possible) for hosting manuals
> > or providing a homepage to anchor info.
> 
> The wiki probably isn't a good place, but you can simply create a
> subpage under sourceware.org/gdb/sim through cvs as described under
> webpages: https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/current/
> 
> It isn't that we don't want to create a new groups cvs/git repo for you
> to maintain sim documentation, but it is extra work and if it can
> simply be done as part of the gdb project resources that saves some
> time for everybody.
> 
> And maybe if it is a pain for you to maintain the sim webpages as part
> of gdb, then maybe it is a pain for all of gdb and maybe we should
> focus on improving that for everybody.

i can start the skeleton under gdb and see how it works.  except:
cvs add: cannot mkdir /cvs/gdb/htdocs/sim: Permission denied
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 19 Nov 2021 03:31, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 18 Nov 2021 16:03, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > On Wed, 2021-11-17 at 20:38 -0500, Mike Frysinger via Overseers wrote:
> > > > How about just using the gdb docs/wiki until that hypothetical time
> > > > when it is released independently?  It'd simplify configuration, and
> > > > avoid having to deal with yet another set of admin ACLs & repos.
> > > 
> > > i am using the wiki, but that's not good (if even possible) for hosting manuals
> > > or providing a homepage to anchor info.
> > 
> > The wiki probably isn't a good place, but you can simply create a
> > subpage under sourceware.org/gdb/sim through cvs as described under
> > webpages: https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/current/
> > 
> > It isn't that we don't want to create a new groups cvs/git repo for you
> > to maintain sim documentation, but it is extra work and if it can
> > simply be done as part of the gdb project resources that saves some
> > time for everybody.
> > 
> > And maybe if it is a pain for you to maintain the sim webpages as part
> > of gdb, then maybe it is a pain for all of gdb and maybe we should
> > focus on improving that for everybody.
> 
> i can start the skeleton under gdb and see how it works.  except:
> cvs add: cannot mkdir /cvs/gdb/htdocs/sim: Permission denied

also, if i'm reading the sources correctly, the gdb manual is not stored in
the gdb cvs tree, but is uploaded manually via scp to the gdbadmin acct.
which i'm pretty sure i wouldn't have access to.

so are you proposing adding me to the gdb ACLs ?
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Mike,

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 03:42:05AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > > It isn't that we don't want to create a new groups cvs/git repo for you
> > > to maintain sim documentation, but it is extra work and if it can
> > > simply be done as part of the gdb project resources that saves some
> > > time for everybody.
> > > 
> > > And maybe if it is a pain for you to maintain the sim webpages as part
> > > of gdb, then maybe it is a pain for all of gdb and maybe we should
> > > focus on improving that for everybody.
> > 
> > i can start the skeleton under gdb and see how it works.  except:
> > cvs add: cannot mkdir /cvs/gdb/htdocs/sim: Permission denied
> 
> also, if i'm reading the sources correctly, the gdb manual is not stored in
> the gdb cvs tree, but is uploaded manually via scp to the gdbadmin acct.
> which i'm pretty sure i wouldn't have access to.
> 
> so are you proposing adding me to the gdb ACLs ?

Maybe. I assumed every committer would (technically) be able to update
the website, I think it would be good to discusss with the other gdb
maintainers. It seems the current setup, how and who can update the
gdb website pages, isn't fully documented.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 19 Nov 2021 11:08, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 03:42:05AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > > > It isn't that we don't want to create a new groups cvs/git repo for you
> > > > to maintain sim documentation, but it is extra work and if it can
> > > > simply be done as part of the gdb project resources that saves some
> > > > time for everybody.
> > > > 
> > > > And maybe if it is a pain for you to maintain the sim webpages as part
> > > > of gdb, then maybe it is a pain for all of gdb and maybe we should
> > > > focus on improving that for everybody.
> > > 
> > > i can start the skeleton under gdb and see how it works.  except:
> > > cvs add: cannot mkdir /cvs/gdb/htdocs/sim: Permission denied
> > 
> > also, if i'm reading the sources correctly, the gdb manual is not stored in
> > the gdb cvs tree, but is uploaded manually via scp to the gdbadmin acct.
> > which i'm pretty sure i wouldn't have access to.
> > 
> > so are you proposing adding me to the gdb ACLs ?
> 
> Maybe. I assumed every committer would (technically) be able to update
> the website, I think it would be good to discusss with the other gdb
> maintainers. It seems the current setup, how and who can update the
> gdb website pages, isn't fully documented.

i mean, i don't want these perms.  i want hosting for the sim project.
but i guess i can cc a random selection of global gdb maintainers.
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Pedro Alves]

Joel I think would be the best person to ask about how the GDB website setup works.
I've never touched it myself, so all I learned last time I asked about it, I've since forgot.  :-)
Thus, adding Joel.

On 2021-11-19 11:15, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 19 Nov 2021 11:08, Mark Wielaard wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 03:42:05AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>>>> It isn't that we don't want to create a new groups cvs/git repo for you
>>>>> to maintain sim documentation, but it is extra work and if it can
>>>>> simply be done as part of the gdb project resources that saves some
>>>>> time for everybody.
>>>>>
>>>>> And maybe if it is a pain for you to maintain the sim webpages as part
>>>>> of gdb, then maybe it is a pain for all of gdb and maybe we should
>>>>> focus on improving that for everybody.
>>>>
>>>> i can start the skeleton under gdb and see how it works.  except:
>>>> cvs add: cannot mkdir /cvs/gdb/htdocs/sim: Permission denied
>>>
>>> also, if i'm reading the sources correctly, the gdb manual is not stored in
>>> the gdb cvs tree, but is uploaded manually via scp to the gdbadmin acct.
>>> which i'm pretty sure i wouldn't have access to.
>>>
>>> so are you proposing adding me to the gdb ACLs ?
>>
>> Maybe. I assumed every committer would (technically) be able to update
>> the website, I think it would be good to discusss with the other gdb
>> maintainers. It seems the current setup, how and who can update the
>> gdb website pages, isn't fully documented.
> 
> i mean, i don't want these perms.  i want hosting for the sim project.
> but i guess i can cc a random selection of global gdb maintainers.
> -mike
> 

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

> Joel I think would be the best person to ask about how the GDB website
> setup works.  I've never touched it myself, so all I learned last time
> I asked about it, I've since forgot.  :-) Thus, adding Joel.

I see some head shaking in my future...

The GDB website is under CVS, and there are two copies.

  - One is hosted on GNU Savannah
      https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gdb
    This is the source of the website that's published on gnu.org:
      https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/

  - One is hosted on sourceware.org
      CVS/Root: sourceware.org:/cvs/gdb
      CVS/Repository: htdocs

    This repository is the source of the copy on sourceware.org:
      https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/

I don't know why we have two copies of the website, unfortunately.

It would be nice if we could transition the sources to Git.
I haven't done it, because I don't know how the automatic-update-after-push
is set up, so I'm concerned about breaking the website update if I do.

Meanwhile, because I've pretty much been the only editor of those
sources, I've been able to get away with my own Git repository and
the use of "git cvsexportcommit" to push patches.

If people send me patches, I'm happy to push them.

-- 
Joel

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Joel,

Thanks for the overview.

On Sun, 2021-11-21 at 17:59 +0400, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> 
> The GDB website is under CVS, and there are two copies.
> 
>   - One is hosted on GNU Savannah
>       https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gdb
>     This is the source of the website that's published on gnu.org:
>       https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/

For savannah you are unfortunately stuck with CVS for webpages. But you
can just install a redirect to https://sourceware.org/gdb/ so you don't
need to keep mirroring it in two places.

>   - One is hosted on sourceware.org
>       CVS/Root: sourceware.org:/cvs/gdb
>       CVS/Repository: htdocs
> 
>     This repository is the source of the copy on sourceware.org:
>       https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/
> 
> I don't know why we have two copies of the website, unfortunately.
> 
> It would be nice if we could transition the sources to Git.
> I haven't done it, because I don't know how the automatic-update-after-push
> is set up, so I'm concerned about breaking the website update if I do.

Sadly my knowledge of CVS is fairly minimal at this point, so I don't
really understand fully how it is setup now. But I can see that it
involves getting a checkout under
/sourceware/www/sourceware/htdocs/gdb/
I can convert the CVS repo to git and then setup the git hooks to do
the same.

That does leave the question of who should be in the gdb group (and is
allowed to push) and how the onlinedocs are updated, those under:
https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/
Which seems to be done by some script and you need to be in the
"shared" group to be able to put files there.

> Meanwhile, because I've pretty much been the only editor of those
> sources, I've been able to get away with my own Git repository and
> the use of "git cvsexportcommit" to push patches.
> 
> If people send me patches, I'm happy to push them.

Does that include the sim manuals that started this thread?

It seems better to get things moved to git and make it possible for
others to also update the gdb webpages. Let me know if I can help with
that and who should be involved to make sure we update all automated
scripts.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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at what point would it be easier to have a clean slate for the sim ?

i get that doing these things for gdb would be desirable in general, but if
people don't have the cycles to do it, and to track down the breakages that
come from updating code that's been this way for ages, then i'm kind of stuck.

i'd volunteer to do the sim setup, but i assume none of it can be delegated.
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 24 Nov 2021 06:16, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> at what point would it be easier to have a clean slate for the sim ?
> 
> i get that doing these things for gdb would be desirable in general, but if
> people don't have the cycles to do it, and to track down the breakages that
> come from updating code that's been this way for ages, then i'm kind of stuck.
> 
> i'd volunteer to do the sim setup, but i assume none of it can be delegated.

it's been over a year since i requested hosting for the GNU sim, and afaict,
gdb is still not prepared to host it.  so what are the next steps here ?
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

Hi, Mike -

> [...]  it's been over a year since i requested hosting for the GNU
> sim, and afaict, gdb is still not prepared to host it.  so what are
> the next steps here ?

Sorry, can you remind us what new service you would like?  The sim/
sources are still being developed/shipped with gdb, right?

- FChE

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Mike, other gdb hackers,

On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 19:47 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> [...]  it's been over a year since i requested hosting for the GNU
> > sim, and afaict, gdb is still not prepared to host it.  so what are
> > the next steps here ?
> 
> Sorry, can you remind us what new service you would like?  The sim/
> sources are still being developed/shipped with gdb, right?

So last time there were a couple of issues:

- There were two places the gdb webpages were kept.
  This has been resolved by Joel now https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb
  redirects to https://sourceware.org/gdb

- Part of the online docs are generated by a script
  /home/gdbadmin/ss/update-web-docs
  https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/
  It isn't clear if this can simply be adapted to also generate the
  sim documentation. I don't see a
  doc subdir under sim though, so I am not sure how the sim
  documentation is generated.

- The other website files are still in CVS. It would be nice if they
  could be moved into git. (If we do we have to adjust the above script
  and cronjobs slightly).

- The gdb-htdocs repo can only be updated by people in the gdb group
  (which is a subset of the src group which allows pushing to the
   binutils-gdb repo). Mike isn't a member of the gdb group, so cannot
  push to the gdb-htdocs to create a sim subdir there. And it seems the
  current setup, how and who is in the gdb group and can update the
  website pages, isn't fully documented.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 30 Dec 2022 17:44, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 19:47 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> > [...]  it's been over a year since i requested hosting for the GNU
> > > sim, and afaict, gdb is still not prepared to host it.  so what are
> > > the next steps here ?
> > 
> > Sorry, can you remind us what new service you would like?  The sim/
> > sources are still being developed/shipped with gdb, right?

sorry, i'm not subscribed to the overseers group, so i don't see replies
only sent to it.

the sim code is developed in the binutils/gdb monorepo.  it doesn't need
gdb to build ... it works fine all by itself.  i'm not cutting releases
for it today, so most people would get it via gdb releases, or by using
git directly.

> - Part of the online docs are generated by a script
>   /home/gdbadmin/ss/update-web-docs
>   https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/
>   It isn't clear if this can simply be adapted to also generate the
>   sim documentation. I don't see a
>   doc subdir under sim though, so I am not sure how the sim
>   documentation is generated.

i haven't finished/pushed the manual yet.  i work on it in bursts, and
unfortunately as i write it i find bugs in the sim & underlying projects,
so i work on fixing those so i don't have to document the bugs.

but for the purposes of this discussion, it's a standard texinfo manual
like every other project in the binutils/gdb git tree.  although that
would be just the documentation, not the general project website.

> - The other website files are still in CVS. It would be nice if they
>   could be moved into git. (If we do we have to adjust the above script
>   and cronjobs slightly).
> 
> - The gdb-htdocs repo can only be updated by people in the gdb group
>   (which is a subset of the src group which allows pushing to the
>    binutils-gdb repo). Mike isn't a member of the gdb group, so cannot
>   push to the gdb-htdocs to create a sim subdir there. And it seems the
>   current setup, how and who is in the gdb group and can update the
>   website pages, isn't fully documented.

i guess it boils down to either someone adds me to the gdb group so i
can create a sim/ subspace, or someone sets up a new space that i can
push to.  totally fine to leave it open for other gdb/etc... folks to
push to too (not sure what the acl groups look like).

in either case, i'd like to have https://sourceware.org/sim/ go to the
right place wherever that is.
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Mike, Hi gdb hackers,

On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:18:16AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 30 Dec 2022 17:44, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 19:47 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> > > [...]  it's been over a year since i requested hosting for the GNU
> > > > sim, and afaict, gdb is still not prepared to host it.  so what are
> > > > the next steps here ?
> > > 
> > > Sorry, can you remind us what new service you would like?  The sim/
> > > sources are still being developed/shipped with gdb, right?
> 
> sorry, i'm not subscribed to the overseers group, so i don't see replies
> only sent to it.

Sorry about that. I have added the gdb mailinglist to the CC to make
sure the gdb maintainers can help us setting things up.

> the sim code is developed in the binutils/gdb monorepo.  it doesn't need
> gdb to build ... it works fine all by itself.  i'm not cutting releases
> for it today, so most people would get it via gdb releases, or by using
> git directly.
> 
> > - Part of the online docs are generated by a script
> >   /home/gdbadmin/ss/update-web-docs
> >   https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/
> >   It isn't clear if this can simply be adapted to also generate the
> >   sim documentation. I don't see a
> >   doc subdir under sim though, so I am not sure how the sim
> >   documentation is generated.
> 
> i haven't finished/pushed the manual yet.  i work on it in bursts, and
> unfortunately as i write it i find bugs in the sim & underlying projects,
> so i work on fixing those so i don't have to document the bugs.
> 
> but for the purposes of this discussion, it's a standard texinfo manual
> like every other project in the binutils/gdb git tree.  although that
> would be just the documentation, not the general project website.
>
> > - The other website files are still in CVS. It would be nice if they
> >   could be moved into git. (If we do we have to adjust the above script
> >   and cronjobs slightly).
> > 
> > - The gdb-htdocs repo can only be updated by people in the gdb group
> >   (which is a subset of the src group which allows pushing to the
> >    binutils-gdb repo). Mike isn't a member of the gdb group, so cannot
> >   push to the gdb-htdocs to create a sim subdir there. And it seems the
> >   current setup, how and who is in the gdb group and can update the
> >   website pages, isn't fully documented.
> 
> i guess it boils down to either someone adds me to the gdb group so i
> can create a sim/ subspace, or someone sets up a new space that i can
> push to.  totally fine to leave it open for other gdb/etc... folks to
> push to too (not sure what the acl groups look like).

So questions for the gdb maintainers:

- Are you OK with adding mike to the gdb group so he can update the
  gdb website and add a sim/ directory to add sim specific
  documentation?

- Do you want to keep the website in CVS or should we convert it to
  git?

- Or do you rather have a completely new and separate sim project
  setup?
 
> in either case, i'd like to have https://sourceware.org/sim/ go to the
> right place wherever that is.

Will do.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

[Apologies, I meant to include the gdb mailinglist in CC,
 but I cannot type... Now hopefully included correctly.]

Hi Mike, Hi gdb hackers,
 
On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 03:18:16AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On 30 Dec 2022 17:44, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 19:47 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> > > [...]  it's been over a year since i requested hosting for the GNU
> > > > sim, and afaict, gdb is still not prepared to host it.  so what are
> > > > the next steps here ?
> > > 
> > > Sorry, can you remind us what new service you would like?  The sim/
> > > sources are still being developed/shipped with gdb, right?
> 
> sorry, i'm not subscribed to the overseers group, so i don't see replies
> only sent to it.

Sorry about that. I have added the gdb mailinglist to the CC to make
sure the gdb maintainers can help us setting things up.

> the sim code is developed in the binutils/gdb monorepo.  it doesn't need
> gdb to build ... it works fine all by itself.  i'm not cutting releases
> for it today, so most people would get it via gdb releases, or by using
> git directly.
> 
> > - Part of the online docs are generated by a script
> >   /home/gdbadmin/ss/update-web-docs
> >   https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/
> >   It isn't clear if this can simply be adapted to also generate the
> >   sim documentation. I don't see a
> >   doc subdir under sim though, so I am not sure how the sim
> >   documentation is generated.
> 
> i haven't finished/pushed the manual yet.  i work on it in bursts, and
> unfortunately as i write it i find bugs in the sim & underlying projects,
> so i work on fixing those so i don't have to document the bugs.
> 
> but for the purposes of this discussion, it's a standard texinfo manual
> like every other project in the binutils/gdb git tree.  although that
> would be just the documentation, not the general project website.
>
> > - The other website files are still in CVS. It would be nice if they
> >   could be moved into git. (If we do we have to adjust the above script
> >   and cronjobs slightly).
> > 
> > - The gdb-htdocs repo can only be updated by people in the gdb group
> >   (which is a subset of the src group which allows pushing to the
> >    binutils-gdb repo). Mike isn't a member of the gdb group, so cannot
> >   push to the gdb-htdocs to create a sim subdir there. And it seems the
> >   current setup, how and who is in the gdb group and can update the
> >   website pages, isn't fully documented.
> 
> i guess it boils down to either someone adds me to the gdb group so i
> can create a sim/ subspace, or someone sets up a new space that i can
> push to.  totally fine to leave it open for other gdb/etc... folks to
> push to too (not sure what the acl groups look like).

So questions for the gdb maintainers:

- Are you OK with adding mike to the gdb group so he can update the
  gdb website and add a sim/ directory to add sim specific
  documentation?

- Do you want to keep the website in CVS or should we convert it to
  git?

- Or do you rather have a completely new and separate sim project
  setup?
 
> in either case, i'd like to have https://sourceware.org/sim/ go to the
> right place wherever that is.

Will do.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

> So questions for the gdb maintainers:
> 
> - Are you OK with adding mike to the gdb group so he can update the
>   gdb website and add a sim/ directory to add sim specific
>   documentation?
> 
> - Do you want to keep the website in CVS or should we convert it to
>   git?
> 
> - Or do you rather have a completely new and separate sim project
>   setup?
>  
> > in either case, i'd like to have https://sourceware.org/sim/ go to the
> > right place wherever that is.

My 2 cents:

- I currently have a cvsgit clone, which doesn't work well to keep
  it in sync with other people's changes, so it would be best if
  the htdocs CVS repo was converted to git first.

- Once it is in Git, I don't have a problem with Mike being given
  access to it;

- Whether it should be the same repo for both, or a different repo,
  I'm not sure. If the URL is https://sourceware.org/sim/, maybe
  it's best to keep it out. Otherwise, we'll have a sub-dir of
  the GDB website be a visible duplicate of the sim website.

-- 
Joel

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

Hi -

> - I currently have a cvsgit clone, which doesn't work well to keep
>   it in sync with other people's changes, so it would be best if
>   the htdocs CVS repo was converted to git first.
> - Once it is in Git, I don't have a problem with Mike being given
>   access to it;

Can we have an official thumbs up from the gdb leadership to make this
transition?  We should be able to do it fairly quickly, but it is a
"flag day" sort of thing, requiring deprecation of the cvs copy.

- FChE

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Frank,

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 01:27:35PM -0500, Frank Ch. Eigler via Gdb wrote:
> > - I currently have a cvsgit clone, which doesn't work well to keep
> >   it in sync with other people's changes, so it would be best if
> >   the htdocs CVS repo was converted to git first.
> > - Once it is in Git, I don't have a problem with Mike being given
> >   access to it;
> 
> Can we have an official thumbs up from the gdb leadership to make this
> transition?  We should be able to do it fairly quickly, but it is a
> "flag day" sort of thing, requiring deprecation of the cvs copy.

Sorry, Joel an I took the conversion off-list. And I already did the
conversion: https://sourceware.org/git/gdb-htdocs.git

People in the gdb group can already push to it, but I haven't hooked
up the post-update to the actual htdocs dir.

It is a "flag day", but in practice only Joel (as gdbadmin) updates
the pages and only to update NEWS with new branches or releases.

(The onlinedocs are updates through a cronjob, but bypass the
repository and just add the docs directly in their respective
onlindocs dirs.)

So if Joel says to flip the switch we can. We just have to make sure
not to clash with the GDB 13 release.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

> > Can we have an official thumbs up from the gdb leadership to make this
> > transition?  We should be able to do it fairly quickly, but it is a
> > "flag day" sort of thing, requiring deprecation of the cvs copy.
> 
> Sorry, Joel an I took the conversion off-list. And I already did the
> conversion: https://sourceware.org/git/gdb-htdocs.git

Thank you!

> People in the gdb group can already push to it, but I haven't hooked
> up the post-update to the actual htdocs dir.
> 
> It is a "flag day", but in practice only Joel (as gdbadmin) updates
> the pages and only to update NEWS with new branches or releases.
> 
> (The onlinedocs are updates through a cronjob, but bypass the
> repository and just add the docs directly in their respective
> onlindocs dirs.)
> 
> So if Joel says to flip the switch we can. We just have to make sure
> not to clash with the GDB 13 release.

On my end, I'm happy to switch as soon as you'd like.
If you're ready to connect the hooks to perform an automatic
update of the live version of the web server each time we do
a push, I think we're ready!

We can do a quick announcement on gdb-patches@, to let people
know, but other than that, it's a pretty limited audience for
this repository. Perhaps it'll encourage people to participate
in improving it.

-- 
Joel

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi,

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 09:36:46AM +0400, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> > So if Joel says to flip the switch we can. We just have to make sure
> > not to clash with the GDB 13 release.
> 
> On my end, I'm happy to switch as soon as you'd like.
> If you're ready to connect the hooks to perform an automatic
> update of the live version of the web server each time we do
> a push, I think we're ready!

OK https://sourceware.org/gdb is maintained in git now!

To test it out I even updated the how to update the website
instructions on https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/

Note that I forgot to change one "CVS" to "git", it still says
"Read-write CVS (GDB developers only):" instead of "Read-write git
(GDB developers only):". You could fix that up just to make sure it
works.

I also added Mike to the gdb group so he can finally create a sim
dir/web space under https://sourceware.org/gdb/sim/ (we can redirect
https://sourceware.org/sim/ there if you want).

Cheers,

Mark

broken current onlinedocs

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 12 Jan 2023 00:56, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 09:36:46AM +0400, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> > > So if Joel says to flip the switch we can. We just have to make sure
> > > not to clash with the GDB 13 release.
> > 
> > On my end, I'm happy to switch as soon as you'd like.
> > If you're ready to connect the hooks to perform an automatic
> > update of the live version of the web server each time we do
> > a push, I think we're ready!
> 
> OK https://sourceware.org/gdb is maintained in git now!
> 
> To test it out I even updated the how to update the website
> instructions on https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/

hmm, i can't tell if this is a new thing, but the gdb doc links are broken.
i'm guessing it's new as this link has been the same since 2009 ?

https://sourceware.org/gdb/documentation/
  -> Online GDB manuals: GDB User Manual
     https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/gdb/
     -> 404

but https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/ seems to be correct.

is the link wrong and we should fix it, or does something need adjusting on
the server side after the migration from CVS to git ?

or is this a side-effect of the recent texinfo output change ?
https://sourceware.org/git/?p=binutils-gdb.git;a=commit;h=7bd836d5d90353a2de192fd4711a20b4520246b7
-mike

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Re: broken current onlinedocs

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Mike,

On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 12:12:42AM -0500, Mike Frysinger via Overseers wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2023 00:56, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > OK https://sourceware.org/gdb is maintained in git now!
> > 
> > To test it out I even updated the how to update the website
> > instructions on https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/
> 
> hmm, i can't tell if this is a new thing, but the gdb doc links are broken.
> i'm guessing it's new as this link has been the same since 2009 ?
> 
> https://sourceware.org/gdb/documentation/
>   -> Online GDB manuals: GDB User Manual
>      https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/gdb/
>      -> 404
> 
> but https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/ seems to be correct.
> 
> is the link wrong and we should fix it, or does something need adjusting on
> the server side after the migration from CVS to git ?
> 
> or is this a side-effect of the recent texinfo output change ?
> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=binutils-gdb.git;a=commit;h=7bd836d5d90353a2de192fd4711a20b4520246b7

I think this is a coincidence and not related to the git
conversion. But either the above change or some change in the script
that generates the onlinedocs.

Before (Jan 11) https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs
contained both a gdb/ directory with separate .html files per node and
a gdb.html file with everything on one page.

After (Jan 12) https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs has a
directory gdb.html/ with one file per node and the file with
everything on one page is now called gdb

This is only for the current onlinedocs the (most recent branch)
https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/ and (last release)
https://sourceware.org/gdb/download/onlinedocs/ still have a directory
called gdb and a file called gdb.html

Cheers,

Mark

Re: broken current onlinedocs

[Joel Brobecker]

> hmm, i can't tell if this is a new thing, but the gdb doc links are broken.
> i'm guessing it's new as this link has been the same since 2009 ?
> 
> https://sourceware.org/gdb/documentation/
>   -> Online GDB manuals: GDB User Manual
>      https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/gdb/
>      -> 404
> 
> but https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/ seems to be correct.

I took a look, and this should be fixed, now.

-- 
Joel

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 11 Jan 2023 09:36, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> We can do a quick announcement on gdb-patches@, to let people
> know, but other than that, it's a pretty limited audience for
> this repository. Perhaps it'll encourage people to participate
> in improving it.

on that note, what is the policy for merging changes ?  akin to other
projects where there's maintainers & write-after-approval ?  i can
write up a quick MAINTAINERS doc for the repo.
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

> > We can do a quick announcement on gdb-patches@, to let people
> > know, but other than that, it's a pretty limited audience for
> > this repository. Perhaps it'll encourage people to participate
> > in improving it.
> 
> on that note, what is the policy for merging changes ?  akin to other
> projects where there's maintainers & write-after-approval ?  i can
> write up a quick MAINTAINERS doc for the repo.

I don't think there is a process. For my changes, the vast majority
have been about the release, which are routine changes, so I've just
pushed them and that's it.

For changes that can affect the contents more, we go through
gdb-patches, or at the very least I let people know by sending
the patch to gdb-patches.

That's about it so far.

-- 
Joel

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

Hi Mark,

> > The GDB website is under CVS, and there are two copies.
> > 
> >   - One is hosted on GNU Savannah
> >       https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gdb
> >     This is the source of the website that's published on gnu.org:
> >       https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/
> 
> For savannah you are unfortunately stuck with CVS for webpages. But you
> can just install a redirect to https://sourceware.org/gdb/ so you don't
> need to keep mirroring it in two places.

Sounds like an interesting idea.

One of the things I'm concerned about is perhaps people having
bookmarks of old pages. Or perhaps have every one of the current
pages be a redirect to the corresponding page?

Something like this?

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
   <head>
      <title>Redirecting to </title>
      <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "3; url = https://https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/" />
   </head>
   <body>
      <p>Redirecting to sourceware.org</p>
   </body>
</html>

> >   - One is hosted on sourceware.org
> >       CVS/Root: sourceware.org:/cvs/gdb
> >       CVS/Repository: htdocs
> > 
> >     This repository is the source of the copy on sourceware.org:
> >       https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/
> > 
> > I don't know why we have two copies of the website, unfortunately.
> > 
> > It would be nice if we could transition the sources to Git.
> > I haven't done it, because I don't know how the automatic-update-after-push
> > is set up, so I'm concerned about breaking the website update if I do.
> 
> Sadly my knowledge of CVS is fairly minimal at this point, so I don't
> really understand fully how it is setup now. But I can see that it
> involves getting a checkout under
> /sourceware/www/sourceware/htdocs/gdb/
> I can convert the CVS repo to git and then setup the git hooks to do
> the same.

Combined with the redirect, I think this would be great.

> That does leave the question of who should be in the gdb group (and is
> allowed to push) and how the onlinedocs are updated, those under:
> https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/
> Which seems to be done by some script and you need to be in the
> "shared" group to be able to put files there.

For the onlinedocs part, it's user "gdbadmin" who does those updates.
It does so nightly via crontab.

For the permissions to push to the new htdocs, I can ask the question
to the GDB Global Maintainers. Perhaps they'll agree that anyone allowed
to push to GDB can also push to GDB's htdocs, particularly if we set the
git-hooks up so as to have commit emails sent to gdb-cvs.


> > Meanwhile, because I've pretty much been the only editor of those
> > sources, I've been able to get away with my own Git repository and
> > the use of "git cvsexportcommit" to push patches.
> > 
> > If people send me patches, I'm happy to push them.
> 
> Does that include the sim manuals that started this thread?

Sure.

> It seems better to get things moved to git and make it possible for
> others to also update the gdb webpages. Let me know if I can help with
> that and who should be involved to make sure we update all automated
> scripts.

Agreed.

-- 
Joel

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Joel,

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 06:00:47AM +0400, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> > For savannah you are unfortunately stuck with CVS for webpages. But you
> > can just install a redirect to https://sourceware.org/gdb/ so you don't
> > need to keep mirroring it in two places.
> 
> Sounds like an interesting idea.
> 
> One of the things I'm concerned about is perhaps people having
> bookmarks of old pages. Or perhaps have every one of the current
> pages be a redirect to the corresponding page?
> 
> Something like this?
> 
> <!DOCTYPE html>
> <html>
>    <head>
>       <title>Redirecting to </title>
>       <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "3; url = https://https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/" />
>    </head>
>    <body>
>       <p>Redirecting to sourceware.org</p>
>    </body>
> </html>

That should work for html pages. It is what e.g. gnutls uses.  They
keep the page itself in place (so if there is any delay in the
redirection the user at least sees the old contents), and they just
add the meta http-equiv tag right after the head tag with a
content="0; (to make the redirect instantanious).

This requires a little scripting to update all pages (let me know if
you can use help with that).

Alternatively (this is what e.g. guix uses) you can request an
.htaccess file be installed that does the redirects. You can contact
webmasters@gnu.org for that.

> > >   - One is hosted on sourceware.org
> > >       CVS/Root: sourceware.org:/cvs/gdb
> > >       CVS/Repository: htdocs
> > > 
> > >     This repository is the source of the copy on sourceware.org:
> > >       https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/
> > > 
> > > I don't know why we have two copies of the website, unfortunately.
> > > 
> > > It would be nice if we could transition the sources to Git.
> > > I haven't done it, because I don't know how the automatic-update-after-push
> > > is set up, so I'm concerned about breaking the website update if I do.
> > 
> > Sadly my knowledge of CVS is fairly minimal at this point, so I don't
> > really understand fully how it is setup now. But I can see that it
> > involves getting a checkout under
> > /sourceware/www/sourceware/htdocs/gdb/
> > I can convert the CVS repo to git and then setup the git hooks to do
> > the same.
> 
> Combined with the redirect, I think this would be great.

OK, if you can look into the the redirect I can look into converting
the cvs repo to git and setup the automatic website updating.

> > That does leave the question of who should be in the gdb group (and is
> > allowed to push) and how the onlinedocs are updated, those under:
> > https://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/
> > Which seems to be done by some script and you need to be in the
> > "shared" group to be able to put files there.
> 
> For the onlinedocs part, it's user "gdbadmin" who does those updates.
> It does so nightly via crontab.

I found /home/gdbadmin/ss/update-web-docs which seems to be the script
responsible. I think this should work as is for the git gdb-htdocs
setup just have to adjust the repo/web dir name, which are arguments
to how the script is called.

To get back to the original request for updating the sim documentation
on the website. Can we tweak this script to include sim? I don't see a
doc subdir under sim though, so I am not sure how the sim
documentation is generated.

> For the permissions to push to the new htdocs, I can ask the question
> to the GDB Global Maintainers. Perhaps they'll agree that anyone allowed
> to push to GDB can also push to GDB's htdocs, particularly if we set the
> git-hooks up so as to have commit emails sent to gdb-cvs.

I think it would be best/easiest to let everybody in the gdb group
able to push commits to gdb-htdocs.  If you trust people to commit
code, you really should trust them to commit documentation, imho.

Speaking of groups. There are actually two, src and gdb. src is used
for enabling git commit access, because that group is shared with
binutils. I looks like gdb is a proper subset of src.
 
Cheers,

Mark

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

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Hello,

> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 06:00:47AM +0400, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> > > For savannah you are unfortunately stuck with CVS for webpages. But you
> > > can just install a redirect to https://sourceware.org/gdb/ so you don't
> > > need to keep mirroring it in two places.
> > 
> > Sounds like an interesting idea.
> > 
> > One of the things I'm concerned about is perhaps people having
> > bookmarks of old pages. Or perhaps have every one of the current
> > pages be a redirect to the corresponding page?
> > 
> > Something like this?
> > 
> > <!DOCTYPE html>
> > <html>
> >    <head>
> >       <title>Redirecting to </title>
> >       <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "3; url = https://https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/" />
> >    </head>
> >    <body>
> >       <p>Redirecting to sourceware.org</p>
> >    </body>
> > </html>
> 
> That should work for html pages. It is what e.g. gnutls uses.  They
> keep the page itself in place (so if there is any delay in the
> redirection the user at least sees the old contents), and they just
> add the meta http-equiv tag right after the head tag with a
> content="0; (to make the redirect instantanious).
> 
> This requires a little scripting to update all pages (let me know if
> you can use help with that).

I've added the redirects, with the help of the attached script.
Pretty crude, but did the job.

-- 
Joel

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#! /usr/bin/env python3

import os

def redirect_url(dirname, filename):
    # Use a path which is relative
    dirname = os.path.relpath(dirname)

    result = os.path.join(
        "https://www.sourceware.org/gdb",
        dirname,
    )
    if filename == "index.html":
        # This is the default file for this directory. Omit the file,
        # but still end the URL with a '/'; not necessary, but helps
        # indicate that the target is a directory.
        result += "/"
    else:
        result = os.path.join(result, filename)
    return result


def redirect_tag(dirname, filename):
    url = redirect_url(dirname, filename)
    return f'<meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "0; url = {url}" />'


def fixup(dirname, filename):
    file_path = os.path.join(dirname, filename)
    with open(file_path, 'rb') as f:
        contents = f.read()

    redirect_inserted_p = False
    with open(file_path, "wb") as f:
        for line in contents.splitlines(keepends=True):
            f.write(line)
            if not redirect_inserted_p and b"<head>" in line.lower():
                f.write(redirect_tag(dirname, filename).encode())
                f.write(b"\n")
                redirect_inserted_p = True


for dirname, _, files in os.walk("."):
    for filename in files:
        _, filename_ext = os.path.splitext(filename)

        if filename_ext.lower() not in (".htm", ".html"):
            # Not an HTML file, keep going.
            continue

        if os.path.join(dirname, filename) == "./bugs/index.html":
            # Already converted. Skip.
            continue

        fixup(dirname, filename)

Re: setting up sim project web space

[Mike Frysinger]

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On 05 Dec 2021 14:51, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 06:00:47AM +0400, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> > > > For savannah you are unfortunately stuck with CVS for webpages. But you
> > > > can just install a redirect to https://sourceware.org/gdb/ so you don't
> > > > need to keep mirroring it in two places.
> > > 
> > > Sounds like an interesting idea.
> > > 
> > > One of the things I'm concerned about is perhaps people having
> > > bookmarks of old pages. Or perhaps have every one of the current
> > > pages be a redirect to the corresponding page?
> > > 
> > > Something like this?
> > > 
> > > <!DOCTYPE html>
> > > <html>
> > >    <head>
> > >       <title>Redirecting to </title>
> > >       <meta http-equiv = "refresh" content = "3; url = https://https://www.sourceware.org/gdb/" />
> > >    </head>
> > >    <body>
> > >       <p>Redirecting to sourceware.org</p>
> > >    </body>
> > > </html>
> > 
> > That should work for html pages. It is what e.g. gnutls uses.  They
> > keep the page itself in place (so if there is any delay in the
> > redirection the user at least sees the old contents), and they just
> > add the meta http-equiv tag right after the head tag with a
> > content="0; (to make the redirect instantanious).
> > 
> > This requires a little scripting to update all pages (let me know if
> > you can use help with that).
> 
> I've added the redirects, with the help of the attached script.
> Pretty crude, but did the job.

looks like the gnu.org/software/gdb redirect is live now.  i think the sourceware
side is still using CVS for the gdb htdocs though.  if it moved to git, would it
make the ACL question any easier ?  or would it basically be the same ?
-mike

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Re: setting up sim project web space

[Joel Brobecker]

> looks like the gnu.org/software/gdb redirect is live now.  i think the
> sourceware side is still using CVS for the gdb htdocs though.  if it
> moved to git, would it make the ACL question any easier ?  or would it
> basically be the same ?

I think it would be the same.

But having the htdocs moved to git would make things a lot easier
for having two people updating the contents of the repository.

-- 
Joel