* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online @ 2004-10-01 5:40 Feneric Brown 2004-10-01 6:10 ` Jim Kingdon ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Feneric Brown @ 2004-10-01 5:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xconq7 > Mi povis kompreni vin! Kaj vi povas relerni nur per klopodi. Estas vera. Mi ne uzis esperanton dum plia yaro. > Eric, la teksto enhavis kelkajn etajn erarojn do ne konfuzighu. Vi > pravas pri la akordo inter sustantivo kaj adjektivo ("Ludoj estas > bonaj"). Mi ne suprizighas. Mia esperanto estis neniam bonega; mi scias ghi estas pli malbona nun. Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-01 5:40 New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Feneric Brown @ 2004-10-01 6:10 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-02 2:14 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-01 8:07 ` New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Lincoln Peters 2004-10-01 18:07 ` Eric McDonald 2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-01 6:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: feneric; +Cc: xconq7 > Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro > japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj? Se oni deziras uzi tcl/tk, aux aliaj (gtk?), shajne oni povus simple uzi la UTF-8-on kaj la grafik-sistemo havus la solvon. En sdl, ni havas la dosieron images/font.bmp kaj ghi enhavas nur la signojn el US-ASCII. Do ni bezonas solvi la problemon ni mem, aux elekti programon (ne parte de sdl mem) por teksto. Eble la plej grava lingvo estas la elfa de JRR Tolkien (kaj la Tengwar kaj la Angerthas), por la ludo "Mastro de l'Ringo". Kun la helpo de la apendico de Reveno de la Regho, oni povus skribi lok-nomojn en la Tolkienaj lingvoj. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-01 6:10 ` Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-02 2:14 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-02 2:51 ` mskala 2004-10-03 17:48 ` Jim Kingdon 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-02 2:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jim Kingdon; +Cc: feneric, xconq7 Jim Kingdon wrote: >>Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro >>japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj? > > Se oni deziras uzi tcl/tk, aux aliaj (gtk?), shajne oni povus > simple uzi la UTF-8-on kaj la grafik-sistemo havus la solvon. "If __ desires to use Tcl/Tk, or others (Gtk?), ___ ___ able to simply use the UTF-8 and the graphic system has the solution." "oni" -> "unus" -> "one" (?) "shajne" -> "certainly/surely" (?) > En sdl, ni havas la dosieron images/font.bmp kaj ghi enhavas nur la > signojn el US-ASCII. Do ni bezonas solvi la problemon ni mem, aux > elekti programon (ne parte de sdl mem) por teksto. "In/with SDL, it has the file 'images/font.bmp' and this contains only the symbols from US-ASCII. That it ____ to solve the problem it ___, or to select programs (not part of SDL ___) for text." "bezonas" -> "tries" (?) This would seem to make sense in the context of your comment about me and "pri". (I try to learn the meaning of the word "pri".) Now, for an actual Xconq-related response: yes, I too have given consideration about what a pain in the posterior the internationalization aspect of the SDL may cause. I think that other font tables, similar to 'fonts.bmp' may need to be used for other languages, and the 'draw_string' code will probably have to be rewritten to dispatch to new functions such as 'draw_string_en_US', 'draw_string_eo' :-), etc... as appropriate. Of course, first thing is to get newlines and horizontal tabs supported, __something I did only a few weeks ago. > Eble la plej grava lingvo estas la elfa de JRR Tolkien (kaj la Tengwar > kaj la Angerthas), por la ludo "Mastro de l'Ringo". Kun la helpo de > la apendico de Reveno de la Regho, oni povus skribi lok-nomojn en la > Tolkienaj lingvoj. "Possibly the most heavy/troublesome language is the elvish of J.R.R. Tolkien (and the Tengwar and the Angerthas), for the game "Lord of the Ring". With the help of the appendix of the _Return of the King_, one is able to write place-names in the Tolkienish languages." "Eble" -> "possibly" (?) "plej" -> "most" (?) Shouldn't "Mastro de l'Ringo" be "Mastro de l'Ringoj" ? Eric P.S. The appendix of the _Return of the King_ does rock. Also, if one picks up _Unfinished Tales_ (released after John Ronald Reuel's death by his son Christopher), one can gain even more Middle Earth lore. (Though the secrets for making the rings are not revealed....) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-02 2:14 ` Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-02 2:51 ` mskala 2004-10-02 3:04 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-03 17:48 ` Jim Kingdon 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: mskala @ 2004-10-02 2:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric McDonald; +Cc: xconq7 On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Eric McDonald wrote: > P.S. The appendix of the _Return of the King_ does rock. Also, if one > picks up _Unfinished Tales_ (released after John Ronald Reuel's death by > his son Christopher), one can gain even more Middle Earth lore. (Though > the secrets for making the rings are not revealed....) I used to follow one of the Elvish-language mailing lists (i.e. a mailing list *about* the Elvish languages; actual messages on the list were mostly in English). It's been a while since I paid attention to that, but I see that Ardalambion, one of my favourite Web sites on the subject, is still around at http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ . -- Matthew Skala mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-02 2:51 ` mskala @ 2004-10-02 3:04 ` Eric McDonald 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-02 3:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mskala; +Cc: xconq7 mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Eric McDonald wrote: > >>(released after John Ronald Reuel's death by >>his son Christopher) I just realized that the above was open to a possible patricidal interpretation. If I remember anything from a Tolkien bio that I read about 15 years ago, Tolkien died naturally and not by the hand of his son. > It's been a while since I paid attention to that, but I see > that Ardalambion, one of my favourite Web sites on the subject, is still > around at http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ . Nifty site. Thanks for the URL. Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-02 2:14 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-02 2:51 ` mskala @ 2004-10-03 17:48 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-03 18:36 ` Eric McDonald 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-03 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xconq7 > I think that other font tables, similar to 'fonts.bmp' may need to be > used for other languages, and the 'draw_string' code will probably > have to be rewritten to dispatch to new functions such as > 'draw_string_en_US', 'draw_string_eo' :-), etc... as appropriate. Well, there is the easy way and the hard way. The easy way is to just pick up one of the existing rendering packages, such as pango ( http://www.pango.org/ ) and existing sets of fonts. Something along these lines is surely the way to go if we see it as a priority to support a wide variety of modern languages with minimal effort on the part of the game designer. The hard way is more custom, and has as a goal having more of a distinctive xconq look and/or a look specific to a particular xconq game. One possible solution which passes the buck to the game designer (or UI translator): rather than specify a unit name (or menu item) as text, specify it as a bitmap (in how many sizes? etc). This pushes all the rendering issues (bidirectional, combining glyphs in languages like thai, arabic, etc) to design-time than runtime. This doesn't help with cases in which humans enter text - the chat and "M" (message) features of a multiplayer game are what spring to mind. There's also "name a unit". ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-03 17:48 ` Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-03 18:36 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-03 18:49 ` Jim Kingdon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-03 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jim Kingdon; +Cc: xconq7 Jim Kingdon wrote: >>I think that other font tables, similar to 'fonts.bmp' may need to be >>used for other languages, and the 'draw_string' code will probably >>have to be rewritten to dispatch to new functions such as >>'draw_string_en_US', 'draw_string_eo' :-), etc... as appropriate. > > Well, there is the easy way and the hard way. The easy way is to just > pick up one of the existing rendering packages, such as pango ( > http://www.pango.org/ ) and existing sets of fonts. I was aware of Pango, due to the fact that I have read GTK+ documentation before, and that Pango is fairly heavily required package when one installs a Redhat distro (attempting to do without it breaks a fair number of deps). I just sat down and looked at the Pango docs. It would appear that Pango can pretty much handle everything up to the point of rendering to the output device. I saw a note that it actually does have a function, which is not considered part of Pango proper, that handles rendering to an X11 display. However, this leaves the question of the Mac and Win32 platforms. Unless there is multi-platform, lightweight rendering API that can take a list of Pango glyphs (which I am led to believe is what comes out of the far end of the Pango pipeline) and actually draw them on the display, I am not sure how much use it would be to us. (I don't particularly consider GTK+ to be a lightweight rendering API, and there would be the question of how to get it to render in an SDL window, anyway.) >Something along > these lines is surely the way to go if we see it as a priority to > support a wide variety of modern languages with minimal effort on the > part of the game designer. Possibly. But, I have previously mentioned the possibility of writing labels in runic alphabets (both historical and fictitious): http://sources.redhat.com/ml/xconq7/2004/msg01213.html Of course, in that message, I was assuming that a select set of glyphs would be mapping to US-ASCII (as is currently done with 'font.bmp'). If they are Feanorean runes mapping to a character set representing the lexical tokens of the Quenya language, for example, then the task would be somewhat more complicated, I think (draw_string_quenya ?). And I doubt Pango is up to the task.... > The hard way is more custom, and has as a goal having more of a > distinctive xconq look and/or a look specific to a particular xconq > game. One possible solution which passes the buck to the game > designer (or UI translator): rather than specify a unit name (or menu > item) as text, specify it as a bitmap (in how many sizes? etc). This > pushes all the rendering issues (bidirectional, combining glyphs in > languages like thai, arabic, etc) to design-time than runtime. This > doesn't help with cases in which humans enter text - the chat and "M" > (message) features of a multiplayer game are what spring to mind. > There's also "name a unit". Yeah, it's a thought, but not only does it have the shortcomings you mention, but it would likely lead to an explosion of new bitmaps. I personally would shy away from this solution. Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-03 18:36 ` Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-03 18:49 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-03 23:55 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-04 4:53 ` Antarcticonq Elijah Meeks 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-03 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mcdonald; +Cc: xconq7 > Unless there is multi-platform, lightweight rendering API that can > take a list of Pango glyphs (which I am led to believe is what comes > out of the far end of the Pango pipeline) and actually draw them on > the display, I am not sure how much use it would be to us. It is possible that http://sdlpango.sourceforge.net/ is such a thing. Although that page seemed to describe lots of issues, without quite saying just what SDL_Pango does. > Possibly. But, I have previously mentioned the possibility of writing > labels in runic alphabets (both historical and fictitious): It is the kind of thing which wouldn't be off the shelf. But using Unicode's private character numbers and writing yourself a font which the usual UTF-8 tools can process might be just as easy as doing everything from scratch. Of course the real point of using something like Pango would be if we want to deal with arabic, thai, bidirectional, and the other complicated cases. If you just want to put up characters next to each other, something much simpler like the following (or even home grown solutions like what we have now) are much more plausible: http://www.linux-games.com/sfont/ http://www.geocities.com/andre_leiradella/#sdl_bdf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-03 18:49 ` Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-03 23:55 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-04 4:53 ` Antarcticonq Elijah Meeks 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-03 23:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jim Kingdon; +Cc: xconq7 Jim Kingdon wrote: >>Unless there is multi-platform, lightweight rendering API that can >>take a list of Pango glyphs (which I am led to believe is what comes >>out of the far end of the Pango pipeline) and actually draw them on >>the display, I am not sure how much use it would be to us. > > It is possible that http://sdlpango.sourceforge.net/ is such a thing. > Although that page seemed to describe lots of issues, without quite > saying just what SDL_Pango does. I looked at their code example. It appears to be just what I had in mind. It takes a Pango context (containing the glyphs) and draws it onto a SDL surface. Perfect. Case closed. >>Possibly. But, I have previously mentioned the possibility of writing >>labels in runic alphabets (both historical and fictitious): > > It is the kind of thing which wouldn't be off the shelf. But using > Unicode's private character numbers and writing yourself a font which > the usual UTF-8 tools can process might be just as easy as doing > everything from scratch. Ah, I forgot about the private character numbers in Unicode. I think that this solves the abovementioned problem. Good thought. > Of course the real point of using something like Pango would be if we > want to deal with arabic, thai, bidirectional, and the other > complicated cases. Sure. Based on the info you just provided, it looks like we can cover both the internationalization issue (for people who want to use SDL Xconq in a language other than en_US), and the game designer-specified labels issue. Thanks, Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Antarcticonq 2004-10-03 18:49 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-03 23:55 ` Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-04 4:53 ` Elijah Meeks 2004-10-05 3:50 ` Antarcticonq Eric McDonald 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Elijah Meeks @ 2004-10-04 4:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xconq7 Finally played the standard game on Skala's map and, wow, I never thought a bunch of mountains and tundra could look so good. It's amazing what accurate terrain data can do to make even a game with (only) 13 units so much fun. Tremble, America, for now Morocco controls all the Strategic Ice Reserves!!! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Antarcticonq 2004-10-04 4:53 ` Antarcticonq Elijah Meeks @ 2004-10-05 3:50 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-06 2:01 ` Antarcticonq Elijah Meeks 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-05 3:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: xconq7 Elijah Meeks wrote: > Finally played the standard game on Skala's map and, > wow, I never thought a bunch of mountains and tundra > could look so good. It's amazing what accurate > terrain data can do to make even a game with (only) 13 > units so much fun. It does look quite good. Though it didn't have quite the same features as the other map of Antarctica that I saw recently: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040926&mode=classic > Tremble, America, for now Morocco controls all the > Strategic Ice Reserves!!! If your Moors, Berbers, or whatever so much as touch the IceCube neutrino detector, I will shoot your entire caravan of snow camels. Capiche? Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Antarcticonq 2004-10-05 3:50 ` Antarcticonq Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-06 2:01 ` Elijah Meeks 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Elijah Meeks @ 2004-10-06 2:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric McDonald; +Cc: xconq7 > It does look quite good. Though it didn't have quite > the same features > as the other map of Antarctica that I saw recently: > http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040926&mode=classic Oh lord, the Mountains of Madness... I can't think of any way to model Lovecraft in XConq, but if I do, beware. Nyarlathotep won't work until manual change-type is fixed, unless you want him/it to be a human-only controlled character. Hmmm, maybe you play Nyarlathotep as he seduces and destroys various parts of humanity... Well, one thing's appealing, it does lend itself to the number of units I like to put in my games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos > If your Moors, Berbers, or whatever so much as touch > the IceCube > neutrino detector, I will shoot your entire caravan > of snow camels. Capiche? You'll find our snow camels to be far more resiliant than their warm weather counterparts... Besides, we're phasing them out in favor of Tauntauns. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-01 5:40 New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Feneric Brown 2004-10-01 6:10 ` Jim Kingdon @ 2004-10-01 8:07 ` Lincoln Peters 2004-10-01 18:07 ` Eric McDonald 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Lincoln Peters @ 2004-10-01 8:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Xconq list I don't mean to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for adding multi-lingual support to Xconq and/or the website, but since not all of us know Esperanto, would everyone mind speaking so that we can all understand? --- Lincoln Peters <sampln@sbcglobal.net> By perseverance the snail reached the Ark. -- Charles Spurgeon ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online 2004-10-01 5:40 New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Feneric Brown 2004-10-01 6:10 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-01 8:07 ` New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Lincoln Peters @ 2004-10-01 18:07 ` Eric McDonald 2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-10-01 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Feneric Brown; +Cc: xconq7 Lunch time == attempted Esperanto translation time On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Feneric Brown wrote: > > Mi povis kompreni vin! Kaj vi povas relerni nur per klopodi. > > Estas vera. Mi ne uzis esperanton dum plia yaro. "[This] is true. I am not using Esperanto while/when ___ ___." "plia yaro" -> "doing my job"/"plying my trade" (wild guess??) > > Eric, la teksto enhavis kelkajn etajn erarojn do ne konfuzighu. Vi > > pravas pri la akordo inter sustantivo kaj adjektivo ("Ludoj estas > > bonaj"). > > Mi ne suprizighas. Mia esperanto estis neniam bonega; mi scias ghi > estas pli malbona nun. "I am not surprised. My Esperanto was never very good; my knowledge is bad to none." (??) > Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro > japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj? "I changed the topic/theme -- I ____ __ Xconq ___ ___ ___ Japan; what possbility for other languages?" (Something about the Xconq internationalization effort by the guy in Japan....) Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Antarcticonq
@ 2004-10-06 2:52 Eric W. Brown
2004-10-09 20:31 ` Antarcticonq mskala
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eric W. Brown @ 2004-10-06 2:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: xconq7
> Oh lord, the Mountains of Madness... I can't think of
> any way to model Lovecraft in XConq, but if I do,
> beware. Nyarlathotep won't work until manual...
I don't know; portions of Antarctica's history according to Lovecraft.
I could easily see both the shoggoth uprising against the Elder Things
in Kadath and the possibly near future -- if we're to believe news
items like the one found here:
http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_kadath_antarctica.html
conflict between humans and shoggoths after the ruins of Kadath are
opened.
:)
The biggest challenge with these scenarios is that (in modern times,
anyway) Kadath is mostly below the surface, and there is some argument
to extending it for multiple hexes; if this approach is taken it would
be reasonable to have units on the surface and units in the caves
beneath not be able to interact with one another or even be aware of
one another.
Didn't Matthew Skala mention that the ultimate goal of his Antarctica
work was to create a Lovecraft based module?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Antarcticonq 2004-10-06 2:52 Antarcticonq Eric W. Brown @ 2004-10-09 20:31 ` mskala 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: mskala @ 2004-10-09 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric W. Brown; +Cc: xconq7 On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Eric W. Brown wrote: > Didn't Matthew Skala mention that the ultimate goal of his Antarctica > work was to create a Lovecraft based module? Yes, though I had in mind more to just mix some Lovecraftian ideas into an exploration-and-conquest game rather than to actually simulate the events described in the literature in precise detail. For instance, I have a list of ideas for advances kicking around that includes "The Delapore menu" - which would increase your food production. Never mind that _The Rats in the Walls_ didn't originally have anything to do with Antarctica. I'm going to have to think hard about playability and scale, though; the rough draft module I have (which doesn't have any Lovecraftian stuff in it yet) suffers a lot from my being unclear on the appropriate time scale. The thing is that activities like building bases and (especially) roads take a long time, weeks to months, but other things like the flight of airplanes take place on a much shorter time scale. It seems like I have to abstract out one or the other. I also had some issues with background economy. I tried to make it so that you could build a network of caches and have them automatically refill from bases, and so that bases in low-productivity areas could be supplied by bases in high-productivity areas by way of a chain of caches in between, but that doesn't seem to actually work. I need a better understanding of why the existing code does what it does, before I'll know whether that's a bug in my design or in the system itself. Playing Wreckreation recently, I noticed that my units seemed to alternate between getting 10 action points and getting only 2, and it's only in the last couple days that I finally figured out that that's due to day and night. I wonder if I might do be able to abuse day/night to deal with different time scales - have a bunch of "fast turns" for things like airplanes, and then the occasional "slow turn" for things like base and road building. I think it's possible to make some units move only by day and others only by night, but I haven't looked into that yet - I got the idea just now while typing this message. -- Matthew Skala mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-10-06 2:52 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-10-01 5:40 New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Feneric Brown 2004-10-01 6:10 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-02 2:14 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-02 2:51 ` mskala 2004-10-02 3:04 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-03 17:48 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-03 18:36 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-03 18:49 ` Jim Kingdon 2004-10-03 23:55 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-04 4:53 ` Antarcticonq Elijah Meeks 2004-10-05 3:50 ` Antarcticonq Eric McDonald 2004-10-06 2:01 ` Antarcticonq Elijah Meeks 2004-10-01 8:07 ` New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online Lincoln Peters 2004-10-01 18:07 ` Eric McDonald 2004-10-06 2:52 Antarcticonq Eric W. Brown 2004-10-09 20:31 ` Antarcticonq mskala
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