From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: Re: I'm trying to set up docbook-tools...
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 07:49:00 -0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87hfa2ni9t.fsf@nwalsh.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <20000707074900.xTok_TmLKaBl5kZpboN2k6M0CwnIt2t-xWG2JLmtei0@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20000706131959.A25726@thyrsus.com>
/ "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com> was heard to say:
| I don't think anybody doubts that it was your intention to be clear.
| Your execution, however, completely failed in that respect. The
Completely? Thanks.
| failure seems to me to be an indicator of a wider problem in the
| technical culture surrounding SGML, one I've bitched about before.
Yes, you have.
| Two years ago, I complained vociferously on the DocBook list that the
| SGML culture had a pathological case of self-absorption and seemed to
And with such vitriol and ranting that several respectable members of
the list asked you to please be polite or go away.
| unable to explain. For bringing this unwelcome news, I was flamed and
| shunned.
Is that how you saw it. How, um, symmetrical.
| Can this be fixed? I don't know. The problem isn't any lack of
| intelligence or good intentions on the part of the DocBook group.
| There's something fundamentally disconnected and broken in the
| attitude department, though -- an inability to see what the SGML
| world looks like from the point of view of somebody who just
| wants to get some work done.
That's not really fair, IMHO. Two years ago, when you ranted on the
DocBook list, there *were no tool sets that we could point to*. SGML
was a build-it-yourself world.
Now, as I've said, thanks to the tremdous efforts of lots and lots of
people, we *do have tool sets* that we can point to. They aren't perfect
yet, they don't install easily enough, and they don't satisfy everyone.
But we've come a long way and the efforts continue.
Not only do I think the problem can be fixed, I'm confident it will
be.
Be seeing you,
norm
--
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | The worst enemy of life, freedom and
http://nwalsh.com/ | the common decencies is total anarchy;
| their second worst enemy is total
| efficiency.--Aldous Huxley
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2000-07-07 7:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 116+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2000-12-27 6:36 Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-04 8:02 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-04 8:05 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-04 8:22 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-07 7:49 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-04 8:27 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-04 8:45 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Chuck Mead
2000-07-04 8:45 ` Chuck Mead
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-07-04 10:25 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 ` madhu
2000-07-04 22:01 ` madhu
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Sam Roberts
2000-07-05 7:32 ` Sam Roberts
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Sam Roberts
2000-07-05 7:40 ` Sam Roberts
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Ismael Olea
2000-07-05 9:57 ` Ismael Olea
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-05 9:59 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-04 11:21 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-07 7:49 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` David C. Mason
2000-07-05 7:41 ` David C. Mason
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-06 9:21 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` docbook-tools-discuss: " Bill Campbell
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Edward C. Bailey
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Bill Campbell
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Crash-course to DocBook Eric Bischoff
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Peter Toft
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Johnson
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh [this message]
2000-07-07 7:49 ` I'm trying to set up docbook-tools Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-06 10:25 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-06 10:37 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Kendall Clark
2000-07-06 10:48 ` Kendall Clark
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-06 10:53 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-07-06 13:38 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` David C. Mason
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-06 11:59 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` David C. Mason
2000-07-06 13:55 ` David C. Mason
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-06 14:52 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Edward C. Bailey
2000-07-06 16:05 ` Edward C. Bailey
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-06 16:46 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-07 7:49 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Derek Simkowiak
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-07 14:42 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` David C. Mason
2000-07-06 15:23 ` David C. Mason
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-07-06 15:52 ` Eric S. Raymond
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-07-06 15:57 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-07-06 14:32 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-07-06 14:22 ` Eric Lee Green
[not found] ` <ndw@nwalsh.com>
2000-12-27 6:36 ` richard offer
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-07 7:49 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-07-28 10:44 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Chuck Dale
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2000-12-27 6:36 Gregory Leblanc
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Mark Galassi
2000-07-04 15:44 ` Mark Galassi
2000-12-27 6:36 Volker Paul
2000-12-27 6:36 Peter Ring
2000-07-07 2:27 ` Peter Ring
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 Gregory Leblanc
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Lee Green
2000-12-27 6:36 Peter Ring
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-08-14 23:07 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Volker Paul
2000-08-16 6:57 ` Volker Paul
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Norman Walsh
2000-08-16 7:30 ` Norman Walsh
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-08-18 4:11 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-12-27 6:36 ` b_maddy_016
2000-12-27 6:36 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-08-18 5:55 ` Eric Bischoff
2000-12-27 6:36 David C. Mason
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