Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric W. Brown]

> Done. Do you think the search box looks okay or should it go elsewhere?

I don't personally have any solid ideas about where the search box 
should logically go.  I guess it makes some sort of sense that the 
documentation, forums, bug reports, old articles section, and searching 
should all be somewhat near each other as they are somewhat related 
(assuming the search facility covers all of those other things).  The 
download section should be very prominent, perhaps in the upper right 
corner.  Some of the links in the modules section are a little 
non-intuitive (for starters, when I see "Modules" WRT Xconq I'm 
expecting game modules).  How does the Search option there differ from 
the search box on the front?  How does the stories archive differ from 
the old articles section on the front?  Why is the games library under 
documentation and not modules?  Why does the Home link appear when 
you're already home?

Are there any usability or UI gurus who read this list?  It's not my 
primary field so take my comments on it with a grain of salt...

> [snip] - I'm as multi-cultural as the next guy, but I'm afraid the
> Espertinos are out of luck :)

Pity; in some seriousness the more I look into it the more it does seem 
that there is some sort of an overlap between people interested in 
strategy games and people interested in international communications 
via neutral languages.  It certainly seems possible to do, too; the 
PHP-Nuke site at http://www.uk-2003.net/ is one example that does it 
(pulled up quickly courtesy of Google).  I'm sure that for this 
particular site many of the languages that are already supported will 
have smaller audiences.

> This may be because you are seeing the story's header. Does clicking 
> the
> "Read More" link help? Also noted is Eli's input about the Xconq logo.

I didn't really mean the length of the stories themselves, just how the 
portions that were displayed on the front page appeared.

> Assuming that it's not the logo size (and it probably is as Eli
> suggested) then this should be fixed (some tweaking may be required).

Is it possible to preserve the larger logo and still make it work?  
Perhaps a layout like:

+-------------+              +--+----------+
|             |              |  |          |
+--+-------+--+      or      +--+-------+--+
|  |       |  |              |  |       |  |
|  |       |  |              |  |       |  |
+--+-------+--+              +--+-------+--+

would work.  Please excuse my cheesy ASCII art (hopefully it'll hit the 
mailing list intact).

> Absolutely. It's really easy to do. The Xconq site currently does. 
> Point
> ...
> are Xconq related RSS feeds, by all means, do tell!

Excellent!  AFAIK, this will be the first.

> You could have written and said, "Coop, that is the ugliest color 
> scheme
> I have ever seen," and I would have about squealed that you gave such
> honest feedback and changed them immediately.

While I certainly won't say that, I might argue toward using fewer 
colors (perhaps just one) for the sidebar boxes' borders.  Either that 
or color them based upon some logical scheme (perhaps with the download 
and/or documentation boxes more obvious than the others).  This is 
really another area where a UI expert's opinions would be good.

> You can try this at home! Simply send a "one liner" that says, "Coop,
> that is the ugliest color scheme I have ever seen" and see what 
> happens!

There's unfortunately been a lot of competition for the ugliest color 
scheme I've ever seen...  I'll spare you the stories, though.

> Thanks!

You're welcome.  Thanks for your work on the site.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> are Xconq related RSS feeds, by all means, do tell!

There's at least one RSS feed for freeciv:
http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/FreeCiv

That would seem to fit the definition of "xconq related".

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> Oops. Sorry about the horrible translation attempt. I wasn't trying to 
> imply anything....

Don't worry about it, no offense was taken, and so far your translation 
attempts have been pretty good.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> Lunch time == attempted Esperanto translation time

That's how I picked up what I know.  A little at lunchtime and a little 
in the evenings.

> "plia yaro" -> "doing my job"/"plying my trade"  (wild guess??)

"more than a year"

> my knowledge is bad to none."  (??)

"I know it is worse now."

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

Feneric Brown wrote:

>> my knowledge is bad to none."  (??)
> 
> "I know it is worse now."

Oops. Sorry about the horrible translation attempt. I wasn't trying to 
imply anything....

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> I don't mean to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for adding multi-lingual
> support to Xconq and/or the website, but since not all of us know
> Esperanto, would everyone mind speaking so that we can all understand?

Oops, sorry.  I just noted that I'd seen the Japanese localization 
patch for Xconq and was wondering if anyone had looked at it and 
determined whether or not it could be applied toward a general I18N 
solution.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> Mi povis kompreni vin!  Kaj vi povas relerni nur per klopodi.

Estas vera.  Mi ne uzis esperanton dum plia yaro.

> Eric, la teksto enhavis kelkajn etajn erarojn do ne konfuzighu.  Vi
> pravas pri la akordo inter sustantivo kaj adjektivo ("Ludoj estas
> bonaj").

Mi ne suprizighas.  Mia esperanto estis neniam bonega; mi scias ghi 
estas pli malbona nun.

Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro 
japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj?

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro 
> japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj?

Se oni deziras uzi tcl/tk, aux aliaj (gtk?), shajne oni povus
simple uzi la UTF-8-on kaj la grafik-sistemo havus la solvon.

En sdl, ni havas la dosieron images/font.bmp kaj ghi enhavas nur la
signojn el US-ASCII.  Do ni bezonas solvi la problemon ni mem, aux
elekti programon (ne parte de sdl mem) por teksto.

Eble la plej grava lingvo estas la elfa de JRR Tolkien (kaj la Tengwar
kaj la Angerthas), por la ludo "Mastro de l'Ringo".  Kun la helpo de
la apendico de Reveno de la Regho, oni povus skribi lok-nomojn en la
Tolkienaj lingvoj.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

Jim Kingdon wrote:
>>Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro 
>>japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj?
> 
> Se oni deziras uzi tcl/tk, aux aliaj (gtk?), shajne oni povus
> simple uzi la UTF-8-on kaj la grafik-sistemo havus la solvon.

"If __ desires to use Tcl/Tk, or others (Gtk?), ___ ___ able to simply 
use the UTF-8 and the graphic system has the solution."

"oni" -> "unus" -> "one" (?)
"shajne" -> "certainly/surely" (?)

> En sdl, ni havas la dosieron images/font.bmp kaj ghi enhavas nur la
> signojn el US-ASCII.  Do ni bezonas solvi la problemon ni mem, aux
> elekti programon (ne parte de sdl mem) por teksto.

"In/with SDL, it has the file 'images/font.bmp' and this contains only 
the symbols from US-ASCII.  That it ____ to solve the problem it ___, or 
to select programs (not part of SDL ___) for text."

"bezonas" -> "tries" (?)
This would seem to make sense in the context of your comment about me 
and "pri". (I try to learn the meaning of the word "pri".)

Now, for an actual Xconq-related response: yes, I too have given 
consideration about what a pain in the posterior the 
internationalization aspect of the SDL may cause. I think that other 
font tables, similar to 'fonts.bmp' may need to be used for other 
languages, and the 'draw_string' code will probably have to be rewritten 
to dispatch to new functions such as 'draw_string_en_US', 
'draw_string_eo' :-), etc... as appropriate.

Of course, first thing is to get newlines and horizontal tabs supported, 
__something I did only a few weeks ago.

> Eble la plej grava lingvo estas la elfa de JRR Tolkien (kaj la Tengwar
> kaj la Angerthas), por la ludo "Mastro de l'Ringo".  Kun la helpo de
> la apendico de Reveno de la Regho, oni povus skribi lok-nomojn en la
> Tolkienaj lingvoj.

"Possibly the most heavy/troublesome language is the elvish of J.R.R. 
Tolkien (and the Tengwar and the Angerthas), for the game "Lord of the 
Ring". With the help of the appendix of the _Return of the King_, one is 
able to write place-names in the Tolkienish languages."

"Eble" -> "possibly" (?)
"plej" -> "most" (?)

Shouldn't "Mastro de l'Ringo" be "Mastro de l'Ringoj" ?

Eric

P.S. The appendix of the _Return of the King_ does rock. Also, if one 
picks up _Unfinished Tales_ (released after John Ronald Reuel's death by 
his son Christopher), one can gain even more Middle Earth lore. (Though 
the secrets for making the rings are not revealed....)

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[mskala]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Eric McDonald wrote:
> P.S. The appendix of the _Return of the King_ does rock. Also, if one 
> picks up _Unfinished Tales_ (released after John Ronald Reuel's death by 
> his son Christopher), one can gain even more Middle Earth lore. (Though 
> the secrets for making the rings are not revealed....)

I used to follow one of the Elvish-language mailing lists (i.e. a mailing
list *about* the Elvish languages; actual messages on the list were mostly
in English).  It's been a while since I paid attention to that, but I see
that Ardalambion, one of my favourite Web sites on the subject, is still
around at http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ .
-- 
Matthew Skala
mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                    Embrace and defend.
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Eric McDonald wrote:
> 
>>(released after John Ronald Reuel's death by 
>>his son Christopher)

I just realized that the above was open to a possible patricidal 
interpretation. If I remember anything from a Tolkien bio that I read 
about 15 years ago, Tolkien died naturally and not by the hand of his son.

> It's been a while since I paid attention to that, but I see
> that Ardalambion, one of my favourite Web sites on the subject, is still
> around at http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ .

Nifty site. Thanks for the URL.

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> I think that other font tables, similar to 'fonts.bmp' may need to be
> used for other languages, and the 'draw_string' code will probably
> have to be rewritten to dispatch to new functions such as
> 'draw_string_en_US', 'draw_string_eo' :-), etc... as appropriate.

Well, there is the easy way and the hard way.  The easy way is to just
pick up one of the existing rendering packages, such as pango (
http://www.pango.org/ ) and existing sets of fonts.  Something along
these lines is surely the way to go if we see it as a priority to
support a wide variety of modern languages with minimal effort on the
part of the game designer.

The hard way is more custom, and has as a goal having more of a
distinctive xconq look and/or a look specific to a particular xconq
game.  One possible solution which passes the buck to the game
designer (or UI translator): rather than specify a unit name (or menu
item) as text, specify it as a bitmap (in how many sizes?  etc).  This
pushes all the rendering issues (bidirectional, combining glyphs in
languages like thai, arabic, etc) to design-time than runtime.  This
doesn't help with cases in which humans enter text - the chat and "M"
(message) features of a multiplayer game are what spring to mind.
There's also "name a unit".

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

Jim Kingdon wrote:
>>I think that other font tables, similar to 'fonts.bmp' may need to be
>>used for other languages, and the 'draw_string' code will probably
>>have to be rewritten to dispatch to new functions such as
>>'draw_string_en_US', 'draw_string_eo' :-), etc... as appropriate.
> 
> Well, there is the easy way and the hard way.  The easy way is to just
> pick up one of the existing rendering packages, such as pango (
> http://www.pango.org/ ) and existing sets of fonts.  

I was aware of Pango, due to the fact that I have read GTK+ 
documentation before, and that Pango is fairly heavily required package 
when one installs a Redhat distro (attempting to do without it breaks a 
fair number of deps).

I just sat down and looked at the Pango docs. It would appear that Pango 
can pretty much handle everything up to the point of rendering to the 
output device. I saw a note that it actually does have a function, which 
is not considered part of Pango proper, that handles rendering to an X11 
display. However, this leaves the question of the Mac and Win32 
platforms. Unless there is multi-platform, lightweight rendering API 
that can take a list of Pango glyphs (which I am led to believe is what 
comes out of the far end of the Pango pipeline) and actually draw them 
on the display, I am not sure how much use it would be to us. (I don't 
particularly consider GTK+ to be a lightweight rendering API, and there 
would be the question of how to get it to render in an SDL window, anyway.)

>Something along
> these lines is surely the way to go if we see it as a priority to
> support a wide variety of modern languages with minimal effort on the
> part of the game designer.

Possibly. But, I have previously mentioned the possibility of writing 
labels in runic alphabets (both historical and fictitious):
http://sources.redhat.com/ml/xconq7/2004/msg01213.html

Of course, in that message, I was assuming that a select set of glyphs 
would be mapping to US-ASCII (as is currently done with 'font.bmp'). If 
they are Feanorean runes mapping to a character set representing the 
lexical tokens of the Quenya language, for example, then the task would 
be somewhat more complicated, I think (draw_string_quenya ?). And I 
doubt Pango is up to the task....

> The hard way is more custom, and has as a goal having more of a
> distinctive xconq look and/or a look specific to a particular xconq
> game.  One possible solution which passes the buck to the game
> designer (or UI translator): rather than specify a unit name (or menu
> item) as text, specify it as a bitmap (in how many sizes?  etc).  This
> pushes all the rendering issues (bidirectional, combining glyphs in
> languages like thai, arabic, etc) to design-time than runtime.  This
> doesn't help with cases in which humans enter text - the chat and "M"
> (message) features of a multiplayer game are what spring to mind.
> There's also "name a unit".

Yeah, it's a thought, but not only does it have the shortcomings you 
mention, but it would likely lead to an explosion of new bitmaps. I 
personally would shy away from this solution.

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> Unless there is multi-platform, lightweight rendering API that can
> take a list of Pango glyphs (which I am led to believe is what comes
> out of the far end of the Pango pipeline) and actually draw them on
> the display, I am not sure how much use it would be to us.

It is possible that http://sdlpango.sourceforge.net/ is such a thing.
Although that page seemed to describe lots of issues, without quite
saying just what SDL_Pango does.

> Possibly. But, I have previously mentioned the possibility of writing 
> labels in runic alphabets (both historical and fictitious):

It is the kind of thing which wouldn't be off the shelf.  But using
Unicode's private character numbers and writing yourself a font which
the usual UTF-8 tools can process might be just as easy as doing
everything from scratch.

Of course the real point of using something like Pango would be if we
want to deal with arabic, thai, bidirectional, and the other
complicated cases.  If you just want to put up characters next to each
other, something much simpler like the following (or even home grown
solutions like what we have now) are much more plausible:

http://www.linux-games.com/sfont/
http://www.geocities.com/andre_leiradella/#sdl_bdf

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

Jim Kingdon wrote:
>>Unless there is multi-platform, lightweight rendering API that can
>>take a list of Pango glyphs (which I am led to believe is what comes
>>out of the far end of the Pango pipeline) and actually draw them on
>>the display, I am not sure how much use it would be to us.
> 
> It is possible that http://sdlpango.sourceforge.net/ is such a thing.
> Although that page seemed to describe lots of issues, without quite
> saying just what SDL_Pango does. 

I looked at their code example. It appears to be just what I had in 
mind. It takes a Pango context (containing the glyphs) and draws it onto 
a SDL surface. Perfect. Case closed.

>>Possibly. But, I have previously mentioned the possibility of writing 
>>labels in runic alphabets (both historical and fictitious):
> 
> It is the kind of thing which wouldn't be off the shelf.  But using
> Unicode's private character numbers and writing yourself a font which
> the usual UTF-8 tools can process might be just as easy as doing
> everything from scratch.

Ah, I forgot about the private character numbers in Unicode. I think 
that this solves the abovementioned problem. Good thought.

> Of course the real point of using something like Pango would be if we
> want to deal with arabic, thai, bidirectional, and the other
> complicated cases.  

Sure.

Based on the info you just provided, it looks like we can cover both the 
internationalization issue (for people who want to use SDL Xconq in a 
language other than en_US), and the game designer-specified labels issue.

   Thanks,
      Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Lincoln Peters]

I don't mean to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for adding multi-lingual
support to Xconq and/or the website, but since not all of us know
Esperanto, would everyone mind speaking so that we can all understand?

---
Lincoln Peters
<sampln@sbcglobal.net>

By perseverance the snail reached the Ark.
		-- Charles Spurgeon

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

Lunch time == attempted Esperanto translation time

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Feneric Brown wrote:

> > Mi povis kompreni vin!  Kaj vi povas relerni nur per klopodi.
> 
> Estas vera.  Mi ne uzis esperanton dum plia yaro.

"[This] is true. I am not using Esperanto while/when ___ ___."

"plia yaro" -> "doing my job"/"plying my trade"  (wild guess??)

> > Eric, la teksto enhavis kelkajn etajn erarojn do ne konfuzighu.  Vi
> > pravas pri la akordo inter sustantivo kaj adjektivo ("Ludoj estas
> > bonaj").
> 
> Mi ne suprizighas.  Mia esperanto estis neniam bonega; mi scias ghi 
> estas pli malbona nun.

"I am not surprised. My Esperanto was never very good; my 
knowledge is bad to none."  (??)

> Mi shanghas la temo -- mi rimarkigi ke Xconq flikis por elmontro 
> japana; chu levpovas chi tio por aliaj lingvoj?

"I changed the topic/theme -- I ____ __ Xconq ___ ___ ___ Japan; 
what possbility for other languages?"   (Something about the Xconq 
internationalization effort by the guy in Japan....)

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> Eble la plej granda demandon oni jam demandis en la Diplomatio pagho:
> chu la pacemaj Esperantistoj desiras ludi ludon pri milito?

La amo de militoludoj estas tute ne implicas la amo de milito.  Oni 
ofte povas regi malurghojn tra ludoj.

> Aliflanke, esperantistoj shatas ludojn kaj en esperanto-kongreso oni
> ofte ludas esperante.

Kay kial ne?  Ludoj estas bonaj por "glaciorompanta".

Fi!  Mia esperantaj lertetoj estas rustaj...

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

Ah, the Esperanto sample size increases.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Feneric Brown wrote:

> La amo de militoludoj estas tute ne implicas la amo de milito.  

The love of military games does not imply the love of military.
(?)

>Oni 
> ofte povas regi malurghojn tra ludoj.

regi -> rules ?

> Kay kial ne?  Ludoj estas bonaj por "glaciorompanta".

"Lodoj estas bonaj" -> "Games are good"

(?)
There appears to be noun/adjective agreement in declension through 
the "being" verb. This is good.

> Fi!  Mia esperantaj lertetoj estas rustaj...

"Mia esperantaj" -> "My esperanto"

"My Esperanto knowledge is rusty" ??

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> Fi!  Mia esperantaj lertetoj estas rustaj...

Mi povis kompreni vin!  Kaj vi povas relerni nur per klopodi.

Eric, la teksto enhavis kelkajn etajn erarojn do ne konfuzighu.  Vi
pravas pri la akordo inter sustantivo kaj adjektivo ("Ludoj estas
bonaj").

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric W. Brown]

> You may view the new websit here:
>
>   http://www.xconq.org

I've added the new Xconq web site as an alternative to the current one 
on the Saugus.net Free Software Page:

	http://www.saugus.net/Computer/FreeSoftware/

It went in with yesterday's regular updates.  Right now both the old 
and new are listed, but I'll see that it gets updated again if/when the 
status of the new one gets changed to "official".

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> This seemed to be a result of the XConq logo image.
> Maybe it should be resized?  At some point, though, we
> should come up with a new logo.  Any artists out there?

I actually like that image somewhat.  Its origins make for good site 
colophon material (perhaps to be made available via a longdesc 
attribute in addition to a standard link somewhere).

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Feneric Brown]

> You may view the new websit here:
>
>   http://www.xconq.org

It looks generally good.  I think the search box might be better placed 
in the sidebar though, and the big otherwise empty mustardy band up top 
eliminated.

Also, I notice that even with all the language options available 
there's not one for Esperanto.  An Esperanto interface might just be 
the draw we need to attract the hordes of Esperanto Diplomacy players:

	http://members.tripod.com/~jcst/Diplomatio/

:)

Actually, as I look deeper, it makes me wonder how much control do you 
have over the placement of the sidebars with PHP-Nuke...  My own 
PHP-Nuke experience is zero (I use mostly Zope / CMF / Plone).  At 
first blush I confess I didn't even notice the left hand side one 
because my browser window wasn't open wide enough.  Most of the stories 
seem to be pretty short (just 1 - 4 lines within the display anyway) so 
perhaps there could be some width adjustments made there (or even both 
the sidebars combined into one as there are enough stories to support 
the length).  Granted, some people run browser windows in full-screen 
mode, but not everyone does.  The flexibility to support somewhat 
narrower displays without mandatory horizontal scrolling would be a 
definite bonus.

Since the second sidebar also has a search box, it makes even more 
sense to me to remove the top search box.

Finally, does PHP-Nuke support easy RSS output of news stories?  
There's some mention of it down the bottom being provided by some 
additional products.  It would be nice if it were easy to do.  If not, 
oh well.

Anyhow, just a few random thoughts meant to be constructive, not 
negative.  On the whole it's excellent work and it's good to see an 
updated site.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Elijah Meeks]

> / Plone).  At 
> first blush I confess I didn't even notice the left
> hand side one 
> because my browser window wasn't open wide enough. 
> Most of the stories 
> seem to be pretty short (just 1 - 4 lines within the
> display anyway) so 
> perhaps there could be some width adjustments made
> there (or even both 
> the sidebars combined into one as there are enough
> stories to support 
> the length).  Granted, some people run browser
> windows in full-screen 
> mode, but not everyone does.  

This seemed to be a result of the XConq logo image. 
Maybe it should be resized?  At some point, though, we
should come up with a new logo.  Any artists out there?


		
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Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[D. Cooper Stevenson]

On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 14:13, Feneric Brown wrote:
> It looks generally good. 

Thank you!

>  I think the search box might be better placed 
> in the sidebar though, and the big otherwise empty mustardy band up top 
> eliminated.

Done. Do you think the search box looks okay or should it go elsewhere?

[snip] - I'm as multi-cultural as the next guy, but I'm afraid the
Espertinos are out of luck :)


> Actually, as I look deeper, it makes me wonder how much control do you 
> have over the placement of the sidebars with PHP-Nuke... 

Just about whatever you want in terms of look and placement.

>  Most of the stories 
> seem to be pretty short (just 1 - 4 lines within the display anyway)

This may be because you are seeing the story's header. Does clicking the
"Read More" link help? Also noted is Eli's input about the Xconq logo. 

>  so 
> perhaps there could be some width adjustments made there (or even both 
> the sidebars combined into one as there are enough stories to support 
> the length).  

Assuming that it's not the logo size (and it probably is as Eli
suggested) then this should be fixed (some tweaking may be required).

> Since the second sidebar also has a search box, it makes even more 
> sense to me to remove the top search box.
> 

Done (if vertical placement makes sense; very easy to change).

> Finally, does PHP-Nuke support easy RSS output of news stories?  

Absolutely. It's really easy to do. The Xconq site currently does. Point
your RSS feeder to this link:

  http://www.xconq.org/backend.php

  I also routinely put RSS feeds in as blocks from other sites. If there
are Xconq related RSS feeds, by all means, do tell!


> 
> Anyhow, just a few random thoughts meant to be constructive, not 
> negative.  

You could have written and said, "Coop, that is the ugliest color scheme
I have ever seen," and I would have about squealed that you gave such
honest feedback and changed them immediately. 

You can try this at home! Simply send a "one liner" that says, "Coop,
that is the ugliest color scheme I have ever seen" and see what happens!

> On the whole it's excellent work and it's good to see an 
> updated site.

Thanks!


-Coop

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Cooper Stevenson        | Em:  cooper@gencom.us            |
| GenCom                  | Ph:  541.924.9434                |
| "Working For IT"        | Www: http://www.gencom.us        |
--------------------------------------------------------------

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> Also, I notice that even with all the language options available 
> there's not one for Esperanto.  An Esperanto interface might just be 
> the draw we need to attract the hordes of Esperanto Diplomacy players:

Eble la plej granda demandon oni jam demandis en la Diplomatio pagho:
chu la pacemaj Esperantistoj desiras ludi ludon pri milito?
Aliflanke, esperantistoj shatas ludojn kaj en esperanto-kongreso oni
ofte ludas esperante.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Jim Kingdon wrote:

> > Also, I notice that even with all the language options available 
> > there's not one for Esperanto.  An Esperanto interface might just be 
> > the draw we need to attract the hordes of Esperanto Diplomacy players:
> 
> Eble la plej granda demandon oni jam demandis en la Diplomatio pagho:
> chu la pacemaj Esperantistoj desiras ludi ludon pri milito?
> Aliflanke, esperantistoj shatas ludojn kaj en esperanto-kongreso oni
> ofte ludas esperante.

Hmmm... Esperanto appears to be a declined and conjugated 
language, like Latin. The "j" endings are interesting; perhaps 
borrowed from a Slavic language? The root "lud" is probably "game" 
as it is in Latin, though it appears to be used as a verb as well, 
perhaps "play" and forms thereof? "Milit" is probably a root 
dealing with soldier or military; similar to Latin. "la" is 
probably "the". "kongreso" is a coming together, a congress, a 
gathering, most likely. "Diplomatio" -> "Diplomacy". "granda" -> 
"great"? "desiras" -> "desire" or "desires", _I'm still 
deciphering the declension system. "Esperant" and its various 
forms pertain to the language itself, obviously. "demand" -> 
"demand". "en" is either "in" or "on". "en la Diplomatio pagho" -> 
"on the Diplomacy [Web] page"??

I guess I am going to have to drop in on some Esperanto 
conversations; solving linguistic puzzles is fun.

Now we will have to see if any Klingon speakers want 
representation as well.

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> Esperanto appears to be a declined and conjugated language, like
> Latin.

Only a little bit.  There are only 2 cases (subject and object),
compared with 6 (I think) for Latin, 4 for German.

And there are only 3 tenses (past, present, future), compared with
many more for romance languages.

There is no gramatical gender.

> The "j" endings are interesting; perhaps borrowed from a Slavic
> language?

Not sure where that comes from, but I have a vague recollection of
other languages which form plurals by adding "y" (or "j", but it is
the sound that would be spelled "y" in English).  Italian changes the
last vowel...

> The root "lud" is probably "game" as it is in Latin, though it appears
> to be used as a verb as well,

Yup.  Many roots can be used as multiple parts of speech by just
varying the ending.  Like English but more so.

> "Milit" is probably a root dealing with soldier or military; similar
> to Latin. "la" is probably "the". "kongreso" is a coming together, a
> congress, a gathering, most likely. "Diplomatio" -> "Diplomacy".

Yup.  In this context, "kongreso" means an Esperanto conference.

Here is the list of endings:

-a adjective
-o noun
-e adverb
-i verb (infinitive)
-is verb, past tense
-as verb, present tense
-os verb, future tense
-u verb, imperative
-j plural
-n accusative (object) case; can be combined with -a, -o, -j, etc.

> I guess I am going to have to drop in on some Esperanto 
> conversations; solving linguistic puzzles is fun.

There's always http://www.lernu.net/ (but that's only for people who
read manuals - the Real Hacker(TM) will want to skip right to the
grammar book written in Esperanto - http://purl.oclc.org/NET/pmeg )

> Now we will have to see if any Klingon speakers want 
> representation as well.

Klingon speakers do not *want* representation; Kling speakers *demand*
representation.

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Jim Kingdon wrote:

> Eble la plej granda demandon oni jam demandis en la Diplomatio pagho:
> chu la pacemaj Esperantistoj desiras ludi ludon pri milito?
> Aliflanke, esperantistoj shatas ludojn kaj en esperanto-kongreso oni
> ofte ludas esperante.

"Aliflanke" -> "alternatively", "on the other hand"? "Ali" -> 
alien, et alii from Latin. "flanke" sounds Germanic, perhaps 
"flank" or "hand".

OK, I'll stop now....

Eric

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Jim Kingdon]

> "Aliflanke" -> "alternatively", "on the other hand"? "Ali" -> alien,
> et alii from Latin. "flanke" sounds Germanic, perhaps "flank" or
> "hand".

Yes.  "flanko" is indeed "flank" although "side" is the word we'd
generally use in English (e.g. "la alia flanko de la strato" -> the
other side of the street).

New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[D. Cooper Stevenson]

Hello Xconquerors,

I am pleased to announce a proposed new web site for Xconq. The new
website is designed to bring game players with fresh, updated
information about Xconq and provide several mechanisms where gamers and
developers can go to get help or see what's new.

You may view the new websit here:

  http://www.xconq.org

Specifically, Xconq's new proposed site provides the following benefits:

  * Community Story Submission

  * "Searchable" story archive 

  * Forums

  * Newsletters
  
  * Reviews

Anyone may submit an item that of interest to the site. Simply click,
"Submit story," write your story in the boxes provided, and press the
"submit" button. The admin team will go over the story (usually the same
day) and--in all likelihood--post it!

The forums area provide a permanent, searchable, area where users and
developers can meet to discuss issues online.

I really wanted to update the look of the Xconq site while preserving
Xconq's heritage. Most everything you're used to seeing on the
"sources.redhat" site is located topmost on the upper left area of the
page for easy access. I have faithfully re-posted the content so that
while the content's "look" may be different (matching the overall site),
the information is exactly the same.

While there's still some work to do, there will be new story posted
every weekday to the site so check in every once in awhile to see what's
new!

Gratuitous? Not really. It's my way of giving back.


Very Truly Yours, 
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Cooper Stevenson        | Em:  cooper@gencom.us            |
| GenCom                  | Ph:  541.924.9434                |
| "Working For IT"        | Www: http://www.gencom.us        |
--------------------------------------------------------------

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Elijah Meeks]

--- "D. Cooper Stevenson" <cstevens@gencom.us> wrote:

> Hello Xconquerors,
> 
> I am pleased to announce a proposed new web site for
> Xconq. The new


This rocks.  Thanks Coop!





		
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Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[D. Cooper Stevenson]

On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 11:44, Elijah Meeks wrote:
> This rocks.  Thanks Coop!
> 

You betcha! One time you wrote, "Keep up the good work guys, I expect to
shamelessly profit from your effort in the future." 

I hope you do, young man. I sincerely hope you do!

I was actually thinking about this. When the terrain mapping is at production, you may want to package the Xconq distribution (probably LOTR based) with rich documentation and maps. Then build a community based server for, say, $5.99 p/month and let the users go where they will!


-Coop

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Cooper Stevenson        | Em:  cooper@gencom.us            |
| GenCom                  | Ph:  541.924.9434                |
| "Working For IT"        | Www: http://www.gencom.us        |
--------------------------------------------------------------

Re: New Proposed Xconq Web Site Online

[Eric McDonald]

D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:

>   http://www.xconq.org

Looks good, if not a bit "Slashdottish".

>   * Forums

Those should make Elijah happy.

Thank you for taking the time to make site,
   Eric